welding school in canada: $13K

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i'm thinking about taking a 13 month, 1800 hour welding course at a aviron institute in montreal canada. the cost is $13K. I'm not rich and i'll probably be borrowing most of that from the government. there don't seem to be any public schools that offer a complete welding course here although there are elsewhere in canada at significantly less cost. could someone take a look at the course outline and tell me how it might compare with a college type/public welding course;http://www2.inforoutefpt.org/guide/a...95&QPubId=5695if the same type of course is offered for like $3k elsewhere in canada then i am willing to travel.
Reply:Are you out of your mind???I never went to "school" for welding...Start at the bottom and work your way up..You'll be doing the exact same thing but with all that $$$$$$$ (I don't know the exchange rate now) in your pocket..Some do in "school" some don't...Some will in school and some won't....I've had "students" come to the classes I hold..And leave better welders even after "school"..You will learn more in 5 hrs with me then whatever "school" teaches you..If they even let you use anything...Ask anyone that has been here......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAre you out of your mind???I never went to "school" for welding...Start at the bottom and work your way up..You'll be doing the exact same thing but with all that $$$$$$$ (I don't know the exchange rate now) in your pocket..Some do in "school" some don't...Some will in school and some won't....I've had "students" come to the classes I hold..And leave better welders even after "school"..You will learn more in 5 hrs with me then whatever "school" teaches you..If they even let you use anything...Ask anyone that has been here......zap!
Reply:just to be clear this is for a career not as a hobby.
Reply:Nick, I encourage you to go to school.  That piece of paper will matter to alot of people who may consider hiring you.  That's true with most professions.  Invest the time and money, once you're finished and go to work it'll pay itself off.  I think you should go for it.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:so 5 hours with you is more valuable than 1800 hours of professional instruction? where do i sign up?
Reply:School is fine but there's no reason to not to give a local votech or jr college a try. You learn to weld by doing it.  A good instructor will tell you what you're doing wrong and how to change it. Paying more for the chance to try it isn't going to make you a better welder.
Reply:Personally I think the school is the way to go. I just finished a 6week 5 night a week 4.5 hours a night tig class at the local community college. Cost was $50.00 for the class. The beginning tig class )spring semester) was $100.00 I used twice that in material and argon in both classes. And I had some instruction and plenty of seat time. I could not duplicate this time at home. Along the way I passed some tests and got 2 certs. All I am saying is look around for some better priced schools.And if you dont take advantage of Zaps class you will be missing a lot. I took advantage of a class put on by Paul from ZT Fab out here in Calif. It was very informative and helpful. I´ll be there at the next class too.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:I would go to your local community college. I assume that they have those in Canada as well as the US. I took a two semester course in Sacramento that cost me only $35USD per semester. It did more for my welding skills than anything I had done previously.There's nothing wrong with your idea about school either except $13K is a lot of jack, even in Canadian money.Sure wish I lived closer to Mr. Zap. Classes like that are quite worthwhile also.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I would go to your local community college. I assume that they have those in Canada as well as the US. I took a two semester course in Sacramento that cost me only $35USD per semester. It did more for my welding skills than anything I had done previously..
Reply:I am gonna have to agree with Zap.  I have tried kids fresh out of school, and still wound up having to train them to do what I wanted.  Yea they might could run a decent bead but when it came time to make decisions on to the best way to go about handling a job they just never seemed to impress me.  I have a friend who enrolled in school, and just so happens another friend hired a guy to start as his helper about the same time.  That was two years ago.  The guy in the shop working everyday is FAR past the expertise of my friend in school.  I have used them both part time so i have seen the difference.  My recommendation would be to maybe take a starter class somewhere to get a feeling for it, and then hire on as a helper or apprentice and work your way up.  In my opinion you will learn alot more faster in the field working and doing than you will in a school welding lab.  That is not to say that school isn't the route for some people, but I know who I would rather hire....I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I think the for profit schools are a greater risk   venture than the non-profit   community schools, and both are riskier than road schooling  . I have tried all of them at one point or another and have spent years bouncing around dead end jobs. If, and by that I mean since, you have your mind made up, (have you?), get set for learning things the way they want you too, and at lightning speed. I would investigate the community college program near you, but I'm not near you. I don't have any experience with Canada's schools.Here, where I landed work within a mile of my current residence, the community college was my only viable option and it was sheer luck (pronounced God's grace), that got me into this welding program.Only you can choose which it will be, but the sales people at high dollar schools are out to put bodies in chairs, first and foremost. People like Zap just have a talent and the good will to share that with others. Where I train, I feel it to be an outstanding opportunity to learn from experts, that I get for a decent price with out another loan to pay off. What ever you choose, good luck! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Of course students have a lot to learn after graduating. As the guy that signed off my aircraft mechanics licensed told me as the ink was drying " Now you have a license to go out and learn".
Reply:Zap, I agree and don't agree.I feel the route I went down was the best.  I went to college.  I took an 8-hour saturday class, and three 4-hour classes in the week (most at night).  I did this for about 6 months while working as a carpenter.  I learned stick, wire, tig, oxy-fuel processes, plasma cutting, air-arc and others.I took these basic skills, bought a gas powered welder/generator and practiced.  I then did as you did Zapster, I started welding on the job and gained experience over the years.  I worked as a full-time carpenter and welded on some of the jobs, then it became most of the jobs, and now I weld on ALL the jobs.  I got certified across the board then I quite carpentry and started welding full-time as a "Journeyman Welder".  The title which to me means nothing, because classifying me with my 4 years experience the same as other guys on the job with 30-years experience is kind of messed up on their part because I don't know if i'll ever gain the knowledge those guys have.  I still consider myself "In Training" and probably will until I die.But my welding job _IS_ a career.  Most of what I learned is on the job.  My college just got my familiar with the welding processes and a little about how it all works and the right way to do it.  It made me a bit more valuable on the job, but not enough to be an expert.  6-months of part time college and 3 or so years of on the job experience (while getting PAID) compared to full-time college for 2-4 years without getting paid.  Not to brag, but so you know.  I get paid on most jobs more than guys with a welding degree and some experience.  But I stopped discussing my pay with people a while ago, so I don't know if it still holds true.Last edited by WelderBoy; 07-24-2007 at 10:41 PM.
Reply:When I first learned how to weld, it was at the local community college.  The instructor knew a little bit about welding, but didn't (and probably couldn't) explain the whys and wherefores about the different processes.  I was told that in order to learn how to weld "the right way" I should go to a tech school and that the two best tech schools were Lincoln and Hobart.  I chose Hobart and I took their 10 month pipe welding program (with an added course) and ended up paying more than 13k.  Once I got my first fab job, I realized that I had a ton that I needed to learn that they hadn't taught in school.  I know that without going to school, I never would have got my foot in the door anywhere because, as a woman, people want to see that you can weld before they even talk to you.  The prevailing attitude among my co-workers when I first get hired is generally "I ain't working with a woman".  Without the basics that I learned in school, I never would get into a job so that I could learn more.  Plus, I know how things work so I don't have to rely on some guy telling me "do it that way because I have always done it that way".  Even though I didn't actually get a job welding pipeline, the basics that I learned in school have been highly valuable.  I have seen people who don't seem to benefit at all from school though...but that may be due to a lack of trying on their part...
Reply:Originally Posted by pinklilly11Nick, I encourage you to go to school.  That piece of paper will matter to alot of people who may consider hiring you.  That's true with most professions.  Invest the time and money, once you're finished and go to work it'll pay itself off.  I think you should go for it.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThere HAS to be a better program than that for welding. Because, in reality, you will have a piece of paper that doesn't mean $hit in comparison to getting a journeyman welder job after doing the apprenticeship program in an Ironworkers' union. Furthermore, you can take a course aimed at getting you certified in whatever the classifications, and then just take the test, and go. Or, say like in the US, get the basics down, and get a contractors' license for welding, and go to work.  To Nick: Any degree from some trade school is not going to mean much when the guy who comes in after you has 10 yrs of field experience. In the world of paper pushers, a piece of paper means something. In the world of steel, steelworkers' hands mean more. I would look to move to another town to get a better deal. Or, come down to the US, and take a class, get the certs. for a lot less than that. School is good, but it's welding, not becoming a brain surgeon. Save money where you can.
Reply:thanks so much for all the info people. based on all the replies here i will thoroughly look into all the college type courses available across canada before i commit to anything. although i'm having a hard time reaching any of them. many of them seem to be on vacation now.
Reply:Originally Posted by pinklilly11Of course IF you can find another school for less do it.  His original post stated he couldn't find any public schools in his area.  So, if really wants to do it, go for it.  That's why I encouraged him on that because at this time that seems to be his only option.
Reply:Originally Posted by XxNickxXthere don't seem to be any in my city. but i am willing to travel to other parts of canada but so far the college courses seem very incomplete compared to this one. check out the bottom of this web page, it's a course outline for the $13k school and tell me how it compares to your two semester course;...........
Reply:I encourage you to go to school, not sure if the one you listed is better than a community college or what ever, but I sure wish you luck in finding a good program.  A degree can make a huge difference in getting a job, and in determining how much you make.  Sometimes you can get to the same place without a degree, but it will likey be more difficult and may take longer, even counting all the years "wasted" in schooling.See what you can find out through the AWS, they are promoting some kind of "universially accepted" accreditation of welding schools.My school background:AS College of San Mateo, CA 2 yr Welding TechnologyBS Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA 2 yr Welding EngineeringMS Colorado School of Mines, CO, 2 yr Metallurigical Engineering
Reply:I'm planning on moving out to western canada, either british columbia or alberta once i get some training. i like to keep an eye on the classified adds on craigslist.com there are frequently adds for 23-25$/hr with only 1-2 years experience. unbelievable."Must have 1+ years welding experience and valid ‘B’ or ‘A’ ticket. Should be familiar with FCAW 1/16 and FCAW 3/32 processes and be familiar with UT Quality Welds...Compensation: $25.50 per hour. "
Reply:I hope you find something that suits your needs.  Good luck Nick.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:If you want your Red Seal, you need to take that program at that school or another school that offers pre-app, so you can get hired on as a welder apprentice.http://www.red-seal.ca/
Reply:Originally Posted by UnicronIf you want your Red Seal, you need to take that program at that school or another school that offers pre-app, so you can get hired on as a welder apprentice.http://www.red-seal.ca/Borrow/buy stick welder & a few boxes of 6010 rods - $50-350Get some metal practice, practice, practice, build a few things, practice - $50-$200, depending on projects, cheaper if using scrap.Apply for Welder position at Jeffboat in Jeffersonville, IN, list "numerous small welding projects" in experience- Free  (Hey, three is a number, so that makes my projects "numerous")Make $10/hr in welding school, then $14-$17/hr if you go out as a 3rd or 2nd class welder while getting experience, and have free access to the welding school if you want to upgrade to 1st class welder or pipewelding ($19.50/hr start + overtime). $100-$500, and you get that money right back when you start working.That's what I'm doing right now, I'm gonna try to finish my last 1st class test tomorrow, and start working next week.  There's gotta be other places that will train you, they might not pay you like Jeffboat, but it'd be way cheaper than $13K.I don't know how most employers would look at a resume, but if I had my choice between lots of school and no experience and a little school and some experience, it'd probably be a toss up between them.PatrickLincoln 175HD
Reply:thanks for the great advice patrickJ but I've done some homework and for me to get hired as an apprentice in western canada i'm likely going to need some professional training.I've since found several more schools both private and public accross canada that have seemingly good programs for much less cost. for example bcit in vancouver canada has a full time 28week program for something like $3300. the problem is that all these less expensive schools have long waiting lines. i'm applying to the bcit program but they say the earliest is may 08 possibly fall 08.
Reply:Hey, if you are planning on moving to B.C., why not travel a few miles south to the states?  Here in washington there is a HIGH demand for welders.  In fact, you can join the carpenter's union as a 1st year apprentice and make about $20/h + medical/dental/retirement/death benefits etc etc etc...On top of that you get paid to learn.  There is a nice training center about an hour and fifteen minutes south of the border that has a welding shop where you can come in any time you want and burn through as much wire and rod as you want.  And when you get good, they certify you.  Since I put "WABO Certified" on the "Out of Work List" at the union hall, every call I have received has been asking about my welding certs and what ones they are because all the jobs need welders.btw WABO stands for Washington Association of Building Officials.  It is a welding certification that exceeds AWS standards.  Must renew every year.  Must have it to weld on any construction site.But if you want to stick to Canada, I am sure there is an equivalent up there.  Actually, I know there is, but I don't know the details and what they have to offer.  A really good deal.  The teachers know a lot.  My old foreman on my first job as a carpenter/welder is now the welding/carpentry instructor.  The other teacher used to be superintendent on many jobs and is welding up his own plane.  These guys are real skilled and it's all free.
Reply:interesting idea but then wouldn't I have to get a greencard? i was under the impression that this is a big process?
Reply:Getting a visa is easy if you have work lined up.
Reply:I think Welderboy's suggestion is a great idea to get you started.  Call and find out the procedures to enter on a school and working visa.  I have a friend from Alberta that did that and moved to ND.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:My 7 month "C" was just over 2 grand (ish...I can't remember anything past 5 minutes ago!  *twitch*)I can't remember (big surprise), but my 4(ish?) month "B" wasn't over a grand.When I took my "C" (it's a British columbia thing) after I flunked out of art school (many days were spent, falling asleep through the dullness that was "art history"), I went into the course not knowing how to weld...since then (2003-ish), I've worked in 4 different shops, and my wage has almost doubled since my first welding job!  I must be doing something right, I guess!  Right now I'm on the waitlist for the "A" and am getting closer to the amount of time that I need to take the test for my red seal...then it's back to Alberta I go (grew up in Jasper)!  BC's aight, if you ignore the fact that the taxes are doubled...nearly 500 taken off each paycheck, what a load off bullf...Last edited by mb_welder; 07-28-2007 at 06:04 AM.
Reply:Nick are you in Montreal or from somewhere else? I went to Aviron but I know there are cheaper courses around here.  It's a welding/fitting DEP, so anywhere you take the course (in Quebec) it will be the same number of hours, and the same requirements.  Usually they will run 2 years though. Search a bit more and you'll find plenty of schools around here that offer the course.  I don't know if the teachers are still the same at aviron, but the ones I had were very very good.  Our class had 7 students which means you get a hell of alot of individual attention.  But it is huge amount of money, so do your research, check out as many schools as you can before deciding where to go.
Reply:Originally Posted by khxorNick are you in Montreal or from somewhere else? I went to Aviron but I know there are cheaper courses around here.  It's a welding/fitting DEP, so anywhere you take the course (in Quebec) it will be the same number of hours, and the same requirements.  Usually they will run 2 years though. Search a bit more and you'll find plenty of schools around here that offer the course.  I don't know if the teachers are still the same at aviron, but the ones I had were very very good.  Our class had 7 students which means you get a hell of alot of individual attention.  But it is huge amount of money, so do your research, check out as many schools as you can before deciding where to go.
Reply:I'm so glad you found somewhere.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Im going to bump this thread seeing as I want to go to aviron, but am not sure if it is worth it. I hear mixed review from people about it but does anyone know the benefits of going to a private school for the welding trade as oppose to a public one?This is their website : http://www.avirontech.com/eng-new/index.htmlThe program information is all their, does anyone else have any expirience with a private school or perhaps even Aviron in particular?