First time vertical welding

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Ok so I had a nice big pice of 3/16 or thicker piece of steel so I wanted to try my hand at vertical welding. I started on the bottom and worked my way up. In the pics it would be looking left to right. Now I know that I cant follow a straight line but for my first time Im looking like do I need to go faster, slower, swing the rod further out, Ect. As you can see I had 4 differnt rods to use today.6011 3/32 that someone gave me so I dont know the brand6011 5/32 esab rods, that burned real nice flat, but I think I was too slow and its really thick weld going up6013 1/8 that burned nicely fleet welds6013 3/32 that burned well and real easy to use.This rod starts easy for me and I can control the puddle real well. Also i noticed that the slag didnt chip off easy with the 6011's. With the 6013's the slag chips off with one or two hits of the hammer in one big chunk.Any help will be verry much appriciated ! Attached Images
Reply:I forgot to add that my goal is to build and weld a rub rail on my trailer.
Reply:You will have better results and less undercut if you clean the scale off the metalUA Local 598
Reply:Thank you I cleaned it with a wire brush on my grinder.
Reply:Anytime I weld vertically I always try to go down.  It's just easier for me.StephenMillermatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200Miller 30A SpoolgunHypertherm Powermax 30Etc., etc., etc.............Cancer Sucks!
Reply:Originally Posted by goinssrAnytime I weld vertically I always try to go down.  It's just easier for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by Vince_oThank you I cleaned it with a wire brush on my grinder.
Reply:Vince_o,You can see all you did is polish the mill scale. You need to use a grinding wheel. Are you using an AC machine? Vert up on 3/16" can be done with 3/32" 7018. To practice welding vert on a flat piece of plate is difficult, you need either a corner or groove to fill.
Reply:WhughesWell see Im learning. I didnt thin that it mattered that much with the stick welding, Thanks.JayIm using a ranger 8 and I was set on DC-. I was following the ranges on the box. BUT I dont have a clue where to start so thats why I posted the pics. When I felt a little comfortable I tried the stae pocket. When I go to put these on the trailer, do I need to grind in a groove in the frame? Most of you guys do this every day and its just a new hobby to me, but I dont want to start off with bad habits. also why is the slag on the 6013 so easy to chip off, but the 6011 so hard? also should I be trying a differnt rod for vert? I dont have a way to store the 7018 so I havent picked any up. From all Ive read I need to keep them in an oven or something like that. Thanks Guys for the help!
Reply:The hardest part of learning to weld is troubleshooting when its not going right. You want to keep as many things as constant as you can so you can work on the things that change like rod angle, heat, etc. One way to do that is to develop good habits like always grinding or cleaning the area you will be welding. Sure you can burn through that scale, but it will be different every time you do it and will give you inconsistent results.UA Local 598
Reply:Switch the machine to electrode positive. Get your self 1/8" and 3/32" in 7018 and 1/8" and 5/32" in 6010. Also get those plastic storage containers to put your rods in. For learning and practice you don't need a rod oven just pull what you need from the container and close it back up. I have rod thats atleast three years old and still welds fine but I would not use it for anything critical though. The 1/8" 6010 and 3/32" 7018 should be used between 80-100 amps, with them sharing the same setting and the same goes with the 1/8" 7018 and the 5/32" 6010 wth the amp range to be 115-135 amps. Go to the LWS and get some name brand 7018 like Esab Atomic Arc or Lincoln Excaliber if you can buy it in small containers, these run nicely. The pics of the beads you posted were all vert up, right? The best one that you did was of the stake pocket since you had a V to fill in versus flat plate. If you can post some pics of welds in other positions to get a better idea of where you're at in learning.Definitly keep in mind of what WHughes says about consistancy.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneTrue, But if its thicker its better to go up. Imo 1/4'' and up should be ran uphill for penetration purposes.
Reply:Are you speaking of 6010 5p+ ?
Reply:6010/11 is a whipping rod, unless you attempted a weave. 125A for a 1/8 rod seems high too me. But if you move quicker, its fine I guess. You cant weld downhand with 6013, 7018, 7024 etc...any rod with heavy slag.6010/11 downhand isnt too bad, you have to pay attention to your arc length, and what the slag is doing, so you can burn it back out. For a nice heavy stringer, try a triangle. left, right then up a bit, into the middle, repeat. pausing slightly at toes to eliminate undercut.6010/11 are a hot rod, you dont need that much heat to run them, where as 7018 like the added heat.Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Originally Posted by welderShaneTrue, But if its thicker its better to go up. Imo 1/4'' and up should be ran uphill for penetration purposes.
Reply:Originally Posted by oxygen454I completely agree. We cant even get certified if we down hand. Stick or wire. I believe true penetration comes into play when doing a vertical up. The stick digs in better and also allows for more weld to pile up. Also by welding up, you follow the heat much better. Some guys say, if you dont weld up, you might as well give up.
Reply:Well guys thats a lot of info! I will do some more pratcing. I will play with the heat range some and see how it goes. I dont thin Ill get a chance to do it today as the ground is wet from that storm yesterday. Ill keep you guys posted on my progress, Thank you
Reply:Took the advise and put it to work today. First I took the grinder and cleaned every thing up and ground a grove in the plate, and it welded so much better! I lowered the amps to 70 also, much much easier to control! Second I took a piece of flat stock and tacked it on the plate. Then I ran, or tried to, run a bead. Stil lots of holes but Im not going to learn it in a day or in 1 box of rods. You guys have got me off on a good start, thank you for all the help.
Reply:Heres some pics Attached Images
Reply:Try a slower travel speed, also, it seems like you have inconsistent arc length. Shorten the arc and keep it in the weld pool. Lets see more pics.UA Local 598
Reply:I can't tell whats goin on those last pictures looks like waaay too fast of travel speed because your no depositing hardly any metal, but my best piece of advice is to keep your rod tight against your work and go slow, the slag will be very deceiving and will look like the weld is dropping out but its not if your doing it right. Get a box of 3/32 7018 and go slow and watch the weld fill before you move allong up the joint.And for the downhand comment, uphill is the only waay to fly IMO. And you shouldn't ever run 7018 or any lohy down, now 5P is another story, but they don't even want us running it down either.
Reply:First off, take a look at your vertical down welds............................  Your puddle is overrunning your slag, and trapping it in the weld.  Vertical down is definitely not the way to go when fabricating.  It may be suitable for pipelining, but not fabrication.  Vertical up gives excellent penetration, and eliminates slag entrapment.Jay O has given you some good parameters for 1/8 and 3/32 7018.  Follow these parameters uphill, and you'll have sound welds.Use a zig zag pattern.  Pause at left side to start, straight across very fast, pause at right side, zig up and to the left to start the same pattern over again.  Start the weld in either the left or right side of the joint, and modify the pattern accordingly, depending on which is a more comfortable pattern for you to establish.Watch the puddle, not the slag.  The slag will spill as you weld, but the puddle shouldn't.  Don't worry about what the slag is doing, concentrate on the puddle"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Before you run uphill, show me a good bead done in the flat position. http://www.sweethaven.com/sweethaven...Num=7&modNum=3 Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammWatch the puddle, not the slag.  The slag will spill as you weld, but the puddle shouldn't.  Don't worry about what the slag is doing, concentrate on the puddle
Reply:It does look like you are going to fast like everyone else says and moving up too far for each pause. Next run go extremely slow and then you will see what happens. From there you will be able to speed up a bit and see where the right speed is. You want to stack beads right next to each other as you go up. Make a dime on left then jump to the right and make a dime then move up an 1/8" and make a dime then jump right and make a dime then jump up 1/8" left and go again. 1/8" might not be perfect since it always depends on situation but start there with some 3/32 6013 or 7018. There is a mig vertical up video on welding tips and tricks that shows basically the type of movement you want to do and a similar speed although it may be faster. The weld should look similar.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the weekHeres a couple from a while back. Im better and if I get time this weekend to play Ill burn some flat welds to post. If I pick up the 7018 I have no way to properly store them. I have my 6011 and 6013 in sealed plastic container in my shop. I get mixed answers on the 7018's most say they have to be stored in an over, others say just keep them dry. That said I know that some brands of 7018's come in a cardboard box. Ill bet that what Im looking at is the slag, and I guess I think Im going too slow, there for I speed up. Ill do more pratice and run slower. The biggest help was cleaning the steel and grinding a groove in the steel. Attached Images
Reply:The 7018 that comes in a box is crap, goe to the LWS and look for Esab Atomic Arc, Lincoln Excaliber, Hobart 418 or 718 and should be in metal cans or hard plastic box. Then get some Rodguard storage containers. Get some 2" angle and star filling it in vert up and overlap your beads by half.
Reply:JayThat is what I keep my rods in, I got one from one of the field welders when I worked at the cat dealer.
Reply:Remember to get as comfortable as you possibly can.  Steady yourself by leaning on something solid, you have welding gloves for a reason.  6010/11 is a very high penetration fast freeze rod and will allow for a lot of impurities on your weld surface.  IMO, that crap is for farmers to fix fences with.  Get comfortable with 7018 for fab work.  Never run 7018 downhill.  Rule of thumb for an acceptable weave weld, weld can be 3 times the size of your rod.  i.e  1/8 rod, 3/8 weld.  No more than that.  You lose strength in the center of your weld if you start holding too far out to the sides.  Good Luck!
Reply:go buy ten pounds of 7018 in a steel can(lincoln) or a plastic box(hobart) . you dont need an oven for what you are doing. i dont need an oven for what i am doing. i dont do code work, i build shelves and shiiithooks...