HHO Metal cutting?

admin

Not sure if this is the place to post this but, I got this email today and thought I would share it with all. Here is the video that I got...http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m...WaterFuel1.flv  Hope it works.I don't understand how water and electricty can cut a multitude of properties. Oh yea the water powered car is cool too.Enjoy!Lincoln SP 135 plusHF 14" chop sawDewalt 4.5" angle grinderloads of hand tools for my Trade job
Reply:Now that was some cool stuff!
Reply:The challenge up to this point has always been that it takes more energy to produce the so called "HHO" from water that we get back by burning it. I would like to see his effeciency numbers of total energy in vs. total energy out before I get too excited. -RyanLast edited by Ryan McEachern; 04-11-2008 at 08:37 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:The fact that this stupid clip keeps getting passed around the web is truly pathetic. That people tend to even remotely believe this just goes to show how incredibly little that average person understands the concepts of basic chemistry.Fist off I never ever EVER rely on a local news crew/reporter to get anything technically right when it comes to this sort of thing. They are paid to look good and sound knowledgeable of the things they report, they are not paid (or even encouraged) to actually be knowledgeable about such things.In my experience news local news people are disgustingly easy to impress. Most of the time they will consider anyone who can turn a wrench or change a flat tire without calling AAA to be some kind of mechanical genius.I was thinking about writing up a big long post that debunks each of the claims and comments made by this guy (Denny Klein) and the video with links to references, but frankly doing that sort of thing gets really tiring after a while, especially when your audience, apparently, can't even be bothered to do a quick Google search to verify these claims.So, in the interest of keeping this post relatively short, I'll just hit the main points.The "technology" that Denny Klein is pushing is nothing more than basic electrolysis of water. Splitting water with electricity is nothing new, there is no mystery involved, it's not even very hard to do (you can do it with a 9 volt battery and a couple of paper clips). Splitting the water molecule produces a very explosive mixture of hydrogen gas (H2) and oxygen gas (O2). Any attempt to call it "HHO gas," "HOH gas," "Brown's Gas," etc. is just an attempt to cover up what it really is and try to make it seem new and revolutionary. It isn't.As for it being some sort of miracle welding device... well that's just silly. First off very few people really understand the difference between welding, soldering, brazing and simply getting stuff hot with an open flame. The reporter certainly doesn't know the difference. Hell, there are even a lot of "welders" that can't tell the difference (as evidenced by the use of phrases like "braze welding," "silver soldering," etc.)As this is nothing more than a hydrogen flam it cannot be used for the welding of any ferrous alloys (i.e. steel). Any "welds" produced would be severely oxidized and hydrogen embrittled. However, such a flame can be used for brazing and soldering applications. In fact such machines have been used by jewelers for decades. The hydrogen flame is very hot but very focused, this allows the jeweler to heat the joint up rapidly and preform the soldering/brazing before the rest of the workpiece can overheat. These machines have the advantage over other methods like Oxy/Acetylene in that the gas is burned as it is being produced, so there are no high pressure tanks to store or refill. The drawback is that they require a lot of electricity to run.Electrolysis requires a lot of electrical energy. Burning hydrogen or a hydrogen/oxygen mix produced by electrolysis will never produce anywhere near the amount of energy it used to make it.I could go on but in short, this whole thing is a fraud. This guy's goal is to get money from gullible investors who are taken in by his made-up techno babble because they are too lazy or stupid to expend the effort to research his claims.Am I the only one who actually had basic chemistry in high school or just the only one who paid attention?Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:This has been out and has been sent thru e-mail for about year and half.It die down for a while and just in the last few weeks has been started back up.
Reply:Just goes to show what people believe from the media.I heard something about this before , the part about it being a fraud.
Reply:Easy there, Tensaiteki.  While you spout about integrity of the reporters I might suggest being careful of the terms you criticize others for using.I have Lincoln and AIRCO welding manuals that go back decades which discuss the differences between welding, brazing, and "braze welding".  ESAB has very good technical discussions of these processes posted on-line:  http://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy14_1.htmAWS distinguishes the difference between "brazing" and "braze welding" in how the filler is drawn into the joint. Brazing is defined as the process of joining metals in which molten filler that melts at temperatures higher than 800°F but less than the melting point of the metals being joined is drawn into the joint by capillary action.In "braze welding" the action which deposits the filler in the joint is other than capillary action.  Leaving a bead of bronze as a fillet in a Tee joint of two pieces of steel is one such example.Soldering is similar to brazing but the filler melts at tempertures of less than 800°F.    It matters not if the filler is based on lead, antimony, silver, or some other metal, if it melts at less than 800°F the process is still known as soldering.Dad was a metalurgist for General Dynamics for nearly forty years. If he were still with us he'd be jumping all over this. As for the HHO story, we need to remain cognizant of the the theories of conservation of matter and energy.  If we wish to unlock the energy stored in the chemical bonds of hydrogen and oxygen as found in plain water (aka H2O, or more correctly 2H2O), then we must also consider what it takes to break those bonds.  There will always be some energy lost, so this isn't going to be a perpetual motion machine.Yes, there are others who paid attention in chemistry class.-MondoPS:  For those who believe in the HHO theories, see if you can find information about a deadly poison known as Dihydrogen Monoxide - potentially fatal if inhaled in even very small quantities. -MMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I remember the Dihydrogen Monoxide story. That was awesome. I don't think the writers got the credit they really deserved for that.Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain