shop drawings??

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I'm a small time structural steel fabricator and am having problems bidding jobs because of the fact of producing shop drawings at the end. I don't understand why architects need them if you are doing exactly what they propose. I am capable of making them, but have not found a better way then the time consuming pencil and grid paper. Are there any inexpensive, simple programs for the computer that you have had success with? I am not very diligent with computers but know the basics. If anyone has advice I appreciate it.
Reply:i do alot of railings on the beach side 99.9% of the jobsi can not post. i went to give this guy a estimate and he had no plans. he wanted me to design the hole thing for freei walk away Attached Images
Reply:I worked for a guy who made placer mining equipment and his daughter took photos of all his work.  He had the pictures pinned up on a wall and would walk through what the customer wanted.  The contract would simply be a written description of capacities of grizzlies, hoppers, screen decks and sluice boxes.  He told me that if he had drawings the customer would walk to the competition and get them to do the job.  He was bitten once. The drawings he did show to the customer only had overall dimensions and minimal detail.  I suggest you only provide a picture or drawing of the standard rail you will install.  Write up the description giving the length of railing as well as length of stair railing to be supplied and a general description of the style.   The alternative is to hire a drafting service to detail the handrailing from the house drawings.  This is VERY expensive and usually only done once the bid is won.
Reply:There are really two questions here:1: How do I generate the drawings in a cost effective manner once the job is complete?  This has been answered by lotechman as "Hire a drafting service." I have several clients that I do this for when they require.  It is also possible to make the drawings before, but this can make the job more expensive since making the item to the print is sometimes more difficult than make it and draw it later.2: Computer drafting package with a minimum of cost, which one?  I use QCad.  The community edition is free and can generate dxf files.  There are others on here who prefer different packages.  The key here is the cost effectiveness.  If you take 3 hours to do a 30 minute job of CAD, that may not be the most effective use of your time.  It may make more sense to hire the job out.So, really, the answer is "hire the job out, depending on the size."  I don't know where you are located.  If you tell me (us) this, we may be able to recommend someone or someone on the board may be right in your town.
Reply:Another thought on drawings.  Be very careful when you quote that you limit disclosure.  I worked with a guy once who was asked to build a lumber drying kiln.  He knew of a kiln that could be bought for a good price and it only needed moving and refurbishing.  He wrote a complete description and drawings on the modifications required.  A few months later he discovered that the prospective client had taken the quote and description to a competitor and had him do the job instead.    The only recourse he had was to send him an invoice for his consultation work with a carbon copy to his lawyer.  The guy got the message and paid the invoice rather than go to court.
Reply:Using CAD to draw as-builts or shop drawings takes as long as drawing it by hand pretty much.  Where it saves time is the ability to distribute drawings to those concerned and to revise them for change orders or as a starting point for a new job which is similar.  If you are doing custom work, the architect or engineer should have provided a drawing and a specification as to what he wants you to do.  It is much faster to mark up or modify a drawing than to produce your own for custom work, either using the cad file or a paper print.  If you are providing a standardized item you regularly produce/manufacture which they specified, but didn't design then you will probably be expected to provide a generic shop drawing.I build small simple stuff from my head but I will do a drawing for large projects or complicated things.  It is a lot faster to modify a drawing than to cut and re-weld metal to make something workable.When professional designers are involved let them be responsible for the design, our job is to build it.  If you are in a design build situation, make sure you are being paid for the design as well as the fabrication and material."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:You said structural steel so there are some things to consider.The drawings you produce are a legal document with liability attached to them. If you aren't pretty well versed in design, drafting and transmittals it is probably best to farm it out. Anything safety or liability related should be analyzed and P.E. stamped. Might not be a bad idea to consult an attorney for a disclaimer notation to add to all drawings. Learning CAD is like learning welding...I can show you then it takes a lot of practice.If your jobs have redundant details, as many structural drawings do, CAD will store those details for future use. One of the points when farming out CAD work is the firm that does the work doesn't charge you for redrawing redundant details. They should have them stored and able to insert them into a drawing in a matter of seconds.With the features of a good CAD system and a fairly decent operator there is no way the best pencil drafter could hope to keep up. CAD also is much more accurate.When choosing a CAD system, make sure you have drawing exchange capabilities. At the very least you should be able to export .dxf files. Being fully compatible with AutoCAD is always a good thing. Having AutoCAD is even a better thing.Make sure you charge a fair rate for any drawings. People tend to think it "expensive paper". But if used properly it is a very good investment.Make sure up front everyone is in agreement whether drawings will be transmitted as electronic files or hard copy and whether there are any restrictions on further use of the output. It isn't uncommon to find one of your designs/drawings with somebody Else's name at the bottom.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:Originally Posted by SmokinPRanchWith the features of a good CAD system and a fairly decent operator there is no way the best pencil drafter could hope to keep up.