Help Me Decide

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Happy holidays everyone! I want to learn how to weld and was wondering what is the best kind of welder for building go kart frames and stuff. I picked out some welders that I like:http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p001645.htm                                   ORhttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=6098                                   ORhttp://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...05&R=200311005                                   ORhttp://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...24&R=200127024Those are just my  choices but if there are any better welders around the $0 - $450 price range that work on household current then I will be happy to view them.Thanks In Advance
Reply:well if your limited to the 115V selection, then that lincoln sp135T is your best bet.   I would stay far far away from the none big name welders.  They may be fine...but parts and service will be a pain.   Lincoln,  miller, htp, esab, hobart, ect are big names.  Hobart is actually owned by the miller parent company, but they are more of a subsidary I believe.  Still, Id take the Lincoln over that particular hobart.  Its a good lil machine.  Just limited on power because of the 115V.  Good luckIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckwell if your limited to the 115V selection, then that lincoln sp135T is your best bet. Just limited on power because of the 115V.  Good luck
Reply:Well I perfer stick,  however I think for gocarts...your doing go carts right???   I think for that a good 175 either lincoln or miller would actually be great.  As I said the 135 prolly would work, but the other alternative would be to get a 135 and a 225 stick...id recomend the dc version which is 225/125 ac/dc.   So you have two machiens, one for thin, one for thick.  For some though this isnt an option.  Its all up to you.  IF you did go this route I suppose you wouldnt "have" to get that 135 as a smaller cheaper model might work,  still i dont think youd be happy with less than a 135.   The 175 would get limitations going over 1/4 in.  However, I think with multi pass and such you could prolly do some good.   Still limited to no more than 3/8 or 1/2 I think...dont quoote me,  the spec sheets for these machiens will tellya though what their limitations are.   The mig will be easier btw, and handles thin a lot better        good luckIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Since you have never welded mig would be your best choice IMHO.
Reply:Yeah i will be doing stuff like go karts. And you said higher voltage is better and i don't see any MIG welders in my price range with higher voltage so i will get a stick welder i have time to learn how to handle it properly. So now which stick welder should i get:http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000012.htmORhttp://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000013.htmORhttp://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000014.htmThe last one is the ac/dc like you said but that isnt really necessary is it?hey lowlypawn yea i have read the mig would be easier to handle but i have a lot of time to practice so i might is well go straight for the stick. Plus it would save me money in the long run from having to go buy another machine
Reply:I Think the 135 red or blue will suit you well its more than enough for a cart frame and as far as how thick it will weld only requires lots of multiple passes imo I had the lincoln135 awesome little welder but when i stepped up to a 300amp miller there wasnt a whole lot of use for the little one anymore
Reply:Well I would say yeah got witht ehe ac/dc version.  I know its more money and all, but the dc is worth it.  when you have both youll never use the ac.  I had one and never ever used the ac.  dont get me wrong.  Ive used ac before.  Dont care for it wiht stick.  DC is safer,  less chance of shocking even dry! and especially in damp or very humid conditions.   Ive DC stick welded many times in light drizzle.  Also, your choice of rods is increased with dc.  Another thing is dc makes a pretty weld...less spatter and doesnt stick so bad.  Yeah if youd regret buying the ac if you ever got to try a dc machine.  The rods Id recommend are 6013, 6011 and 7018.   For go cart builkding, on anything thin Id say 6013.  ON thick peices yiouve got a choice of 6011 or 7018.  The rod sizes id get are 6013 - 3/32   7018 - 3/32  6011 - 1/8    Once you start developing your skills your gonna want to build a trailer to haul that go cart.  You might need a hitch, or might want a custom reciever for the hithc youve got.  7018 is perfect for these applications.  However, if you get a friend who comes over with something thicker than 3/16" and its got some rust or paint whatver on it and says, hey bud can you fix this crack....6011 can be used on stuff that is kinda dirty.  Ive actually had really good sucess on some quite dirty stuff...like in the farm repair field.  But, of course the cleaner the better even with 6011.  6011 isnt a real pretty weld eitehr.   6013 and 7018 are.  7018 is a structural rod.  good ductility.  Very strong.  Good for trailer hitch and structural parts of trailer.   Id use the 6011 for the rest just cause im lazy and I can burn 6011 faster than I can 7018.  Oh, and the ac/dc machine, on dc has a few amps less than the ac...i think ten.  It can make a differnce.   Before you make your final decision, check out your local welding supply though too.  Sometimes they will offer the miller thunderbolt ac/dc or the lincoln tombstone ac/dc for cheaper then what you fnd elsewhere.   just a thought.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:You aught to def get one of the brand names for service and dependability. I have the Lincoln Pro-Core 100(88amps) and the Lincoln AC/DC Red Stick Buzz Box welder(125amps DC/225AC). The stick is 220v and you said you wanted 115v, right. The stick is pretty easy to learn and gets great penetration on the welds. I call it the root-hogger. Like one person said, you can always make another pass with it if you need to. You have to chipoff the slag thats created to protect the weld but thats easy. Then you can wire brush it and paint it. I have done lots of 1/8" with it and it works fine. It works outrdoors too in the wind. the mig, set up with gas is for the indoors mostly, or w/o windoutside. it can weld thinnner stuff and make nicer looking welds but it has wire spools and gas to mess with and all that costs $. I set mine up for gas but switched back to flux-core wire. ITs more messy but I dont have to worry abt gas to use it and it seems to get better penetration. Im up north and sometime order form Welder's-direct out of Wa state. They have give m me great deals and the guy Lance is very helpful. I noticed they had a Lincoln Sp-100T reconditioned for $369..I think my Pro-core 100 was abt $325 at Lowes. I added the gas conversion kit for $97 more. So thats $422 for the mig machine(no shipping) while i see advertized the Lincoln SP-135T MIG Welder for $439 and it gores up to 136 amps..I reclkon id get that one if you go with the 115Volts. Goo Luck.  Hope this helps.
Reply:Raven's right about the flux burning a lot hotter, deeper penetration.   But it doesnt look as pretty as the mig.  Of course I can make 7018 with a few chips of a chippin hammer and it looks clean as mig wire.  Its really nice.  But other rods arent quite that forgiving.   Its all in what yoiure needing and care to desireIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Hey TxR,I read your comment abt 6011 rod. I've always used 7018 with some trials with 7024.I see the 6011 Rod is AC. That wld give me a lot of amps from the Lincoln tombstone. Almost 1/4" material. Welding postions = All. Fast Freeze Rod.Does the AC rods wander more and create more splatter and slag?What are your benefits of the 6011 Rod? thanks,BR..
Reply:Okay thanks everybody sorry i have not been responding i have been busy, all the links i posted for the stick welders are above 220v they are like 230v and the only way i will be able to use those is to get a generator right? Or are they 220v and i am just reading them wrong?
Reply:BR,   the ac actually fixed wander..  Youre taking about arc wander or magnetic wander?   AC is actually used to fix this.  They say over 3/16" is recomended to run ac.  Now,  6011 yes you can run ac.  It will work.   Sometimes its better.  I personally hate ac,  however, I have used it.  spatters more,  more chance of shockin ya.  Dont use it if its damp,  extremely humid, or youre sweating real bad.  if you are sweating real bad...switch out your gloves periodicaly to help.  The sweat can actually be bad enough with some gloves if your not careful to get a arc jump.   As far as the 6011 goes,  1/8" rods can easily takle 1/4" on a tombstone on DC.  I really dont remember how high Ive used I think Ive had no problem on a 6011 with 3/8".  Now 7018...noooo.   7018 can also be run on ac.  For 1/4" youre pushing the tombstone on DC.   So Id say run ac.  IF I have 1/8" 7018's and I got a tombstone I run them always on AC.  Again less arc wander,  more spatter.  Oh AC also sticks a lil more.  But its doable.  Slag will be the same either rod with their prospective ac or dc.   Ive known people with a tombston run 3/16" 6011 and 1/8" 7018 on some pretty heavy steel.  3/8" and 1/2" and one guy I know he did his plate test with 1/8" 6011 and at first 1/8" 7018, later 3/32" 7018  on 1 inch plate.  Hope this helps.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:oh oh, and you also asked about benefits of 6011??   well its a kinda ugly rod, until you really learn to run it.  However, its a good deep penetration rod.  Its fast freeze and its able to burn out to a large degree rust and other surface containments.  To clean prior is always best, but it will make a ddecent weld if your tryin to fix a piece of farm equip in the mud in the middle of a harvest.  Its a good rod.  Its used in industry for the open root pass on many plate type joints.   Plate type means anything except round.  Its a good rod in my opinon.   7018 is usually used as a cover up pass on these rods though.  Still, Ive built trailers with 6011 and 7018 and they both did just fine.  Lots of farm equipment also built with 6011 and its held up just fine.  Good luckIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I-M,They will work on 220v if USA. not sure why they say that.BR
Reply:oh okay thanks it had me a little confused thereI guess ill go with the:http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p000014.htmSince it is pretty good and does not stick as much and stuff
Reply:TxR,thbabks for your wisdom. Thats a great 1st hand from a pro. I archived the comments sos i can learn.Reckon the only way is to get some 6011 and try them on ac & dc. I have only been running then 7018 in dc reverse polarity.So one more question oh great O-B-1:Which mode, AC or DC, wld your rec for the 2 rods?thanks
Reply:YOur gonna be very happy with that machine. I love mine. I built a 15' extension chord for it sos i cld weld outside the garage. pretty large wires..8 0r 10 gage.I dont know where you are but try:http://www.weilerwelding.com/. Frank. Get his lowst price.and then http://www.welders-direct.com/home.htm. Lance. make al the others match the lowest price.Hope that helps.BR..now for another batch of wash..letsee, corn with or w/o barley?
Reply:Thanks for the links, just wondering how would you go about building a extension chord?
Reply:Go to Lowes or HD or the electrcal supply place..the wire comes in a rubber sheath and the plugs are there. Tell the elec guy you want to build a 220v ext chord and hell fix you up. just make sure you choose the right male and female plugs.you strip the wiires back and attach them to the plugs and use some electrical tape if needed.Nothing to it Grasshopper..
Reply:I may not have made this clear,  the dc sticks less than the ac.  If I had a choice Id take a machine wtih dc, and only use ac when necessary.  I rarely use ac.  For me its too dangerous.  I find myself working in damp conditions.  Perhaps the ground is muddy or moist, the air coulld be damp, it could be drizzling, or if your in an enclosed space like inside of a tank or crawling around into a weird cramped position.  The ac will do the job though.  It will offer with these smaller machiens higher amperage.  It is also used when arc wander is a problem.  there are dc tricks to arc wander though.  AC fixes it immediately.   Its always a money issue ac or dc when it comes to purchase of machine.  ID say go with the extra money get the dc you wont be dissapointd.  However, to have the ac output does come in handy.  I will admit Ive used the ac a few times myself.  Ive also used friends ac only arc welders.  An old forney was one I used once.  Real old.   Now, as far as the amperage goes.  Heres my thing it on it. I say 220V.  I also say 115V.   This is totally incorrect. IF i was being techical Id say 220V or 110V or id say 230V & 115V or 240V & 120V.   Ok,  so what this means,  used to be the standard was 220V and 110V.  Each hot line coming into the house was 110V.  There were two runs of this  equally 220V.   Then they went up to 115V, with mutliplied factor of 230V, and now they are up to 120V & 240V.   All welder machienes Ive seen are rated for 115V, or 230V.  You can always take a slightly higher number in real voltage, but never less.  Thats why although our welder machiens are run at 5volts less, its cause they can take the increase, but not the decrease.  This is accounting for a voltage drop that should not ever happen.   Although, in the past machines were rated right at standard voltage. If you use your multimeter to test your voltage, you will find youre getting something right at 240 or higher,  could be up to I think 250.  I dont think it will go bigher than that. If it does, you can contact your local electrician or power company for verification this is ok.  But I think hte general rule Ive heard was 10% increase is withen specs, but ususaly not that high.  The 10% would be based on the 120V I think.  I cant see it being the otehr way.  Anyway,  its just I talk in a perverse form and dont mean to confuse anyone by the way I misrepresent certain things.  I use these terms of voltage often very loosely.  But the truth is the 230V machines run very well off the 240V you should be getting in your home.  Hope this helpsIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:one more thing I should also say about ac vs dc.  Dc will handle the thinner stuff better at the same amperage.  And machiens with dc usually have a lower dc amperage then the ac has.  just a thoughtIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Ok i think i understand correct me if i am wrong but my 220V outlet for my dryer is really more then 220V it can go up to 250V in other words i could use that 230V welder in my 220V dryer outlet because it has more volts then what it says it does? Correct?
Reply:We dont really know your situation but i wld speculate that IF the dryer is a 220volts outlet, it will work for a 220-230V spec'd welder.
Reply:correctIF it Catches...Let it BurnOriginally Posted by BlueravenWe dont really know your situation but i wld speculate that IF the dryer is a 220volts outlet, it will work for a 220-230V spec'd welder.
Reply:Its-Somone, Id get the largest MIG welder you can afford. At 200 maybe 300 amps. It wld do all the steel you need to do.BR
Reply:I agree with BR.  I dont like anything smaller than a 200 amp.  Course Im really usuaaly real happy with a 200 amp,  like my bobus is 210 DC and Ive never needed more.  operative word is needed.  I  could use more for certain applications.  But with stick, the 5/32 in most rods,  including the 7018 can be done with max 200 amps.  Ive always heard the rule of thumb is no morethan 3/16" for non-low hydrogen rods, and 5/32" for low hydrogen out of position.  For the flat position...heck you could go al the way up to 1/4" if youve got the amps.  But for the typical home user....WTF are you doing with 1/4" rods...you tryin to build a battleship or an army tank!   Ok, so yeah  with Tig the 300 end of it is handy, but you can easily suffice with 200 amps.  Again as I said 300 would be nice.  IF you plan to do some alum might be a lil more worth your money.  If your just doing steel I dont know to me it seems like extra money,  but again its always a thing of buy bigger than you think cause yoll never sit and say,  shucks I bought too big of a machine.  But youll always say, dang it shes not big enough.  The exception to this rule is when you buy an engine drive.  But if youre doing that you better off taking to someone individually whose in the trade and can give you specific insight...there are a lot of considerations to buying an engine drive...not just the cost.  Good luckIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:when you say too big for an engine driven do you mean like my latest oneit is a lincoln 400 amp dc with a detroit desiel engineMatt the Alaskan red neck
Reply:Hey Matt, you done any underwater welding yet
Reply:Thats a good machine there Matt.  they will last a long time if you treat em rightIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:The only thing I can figure out on the AC volts numbers is this....... when they say the house current is 110 vac, to me thats half of the 220vac figure, and if they say its 115 vac. that would double to be 230 vac. Line voltage varies in different parts of the country, and also while peak useage is up or down. It still runs our welders fine :-)
Reply:wagabond youre right aboutthe house current being 115v then multiplied to 230v.  if y'all have a house, or seen one with your service elect coming in to the house by service pole,  inother words above ground,  youll find that there are three lines.  Two are insulted black.  One is usually bare.  The bare is for strenght of the line.  to hold up the weight.  One of them two lines is 110/1115/120V depending on your service.  The other will be identical.  If you put the two together, like on a 220 type plug...you get the voltage of the two combined.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Wagabond, the magic word here is "nominal"  ... so 110=115=120.  Gives the Power company a lot of leeway on actual voltage.My angle grinder is my best friend!