Balcony project just got complicated

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I have a potential project building a balcony for a customer. It was no big deal at first. A 6 1/2 ' wide balcony, not very deep towards the house. 60" radius. They emailed some pics of what the had in mind. I found a baluster at King they liked and we where off.Then I noticed I used a baluster that was only 21" high.I should have noticed it but in the catalog, it's easy to miss. Its the only baluster in the group that's short.So I emailed the saying I'd made a mistake and included a couple of choices.Last edited by TPnTX; 02-11-2006 at 04:48 PM.
Reply:This is the closest one to what they picked out.His wife hated it. I offed more choices even from other places....no go.I even offered an illustrated design to use the short ones with an additional top horz. section with scrolls. No go. She wants the Pot belly design with the small top and large bottom scroll. <<<----Period!While Im at make solid square bar not flat bar. Twisted.....He's agreed to pay. Just make it happen. I realy want this job because this guy and I have allready talked about me doing all his gate work and several hundred feet of steel fence.If it's possible I'm going to half to find someone to bend these and before I break out the yellow pages I though I'd bounce it off the forum here and get some good advise.I'm not affraid of getting a bender with a scroll attactment. I'm thinking this might be a toughy for a 1st project. I need about 25 of themthanks if you got any good ideas.Last edited by TPnTX; 02-11-2006 at 04:51 PM.
Reply:Here the alternate design I made for her Attached Images
Reply:why dont you make them your self?ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5why dont you make them your self?
Reply:Originally Posted by chopper5why dont you make them your self?
Reply:If you do make the baluster yourself consider the price you want to charge.  It will cost you more the King charges just for the first baluster.  I have bent and twisted 1" square,  you will need a forge, at least a some firebricks set up to make an oven.  A propane burner is not difficult to make nor expensive,  find plans on the web.I would not attemp to go above 1/2" sq.  since it looks like you will need about 20+ pickets for the balcony.  You can twist it cold and bend it tightly with a torch and a jig.     On this forum there is a good thread for a picket twister design if you have to twist them yourself.  I'd definitely take Harv's suggestion and consult Mr. Epps.  I think he is the same guy who did demonstrations on www.anvilfire.com.         Also assuming you have the four inch code, pay attention to the corners.  You will have to add an additional baluster or post or scroll to get it to pass codes.
Reply:yeah I know it's 3am....My PC has been attacked by adware. I've been working on it since early yesterday trying to get it back to normal.Hey tap whats up? I wasn't planning on doing the twisting. I gotta be realistic. I was hoping to buy them twisted and long enough to used to make the scrolls. I haven't found them longer that 47" yet so it ain't looking good.
Reply:harborfright sell a tool for making them my dad and i have one and it works goodChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:really? you've got that one with the scroll attachment? I was looking at those. I didn't know if it would work for 1/4 solid bar.
Reply:I have the scroll attachment.  I don't use scrolls from it for high end homes.  I think it does 1/4 flat max,maybe only 3/16.  I had a job where I  did several cookie cutter rail with panel columns, inside rails and mail boxes.  It really came in handy for producing repeated scrolls.  However, I don't think it produces scrolls thick enough for high end homes.  From a distance you can't really see the side profile.  I also use it for scroll patterns then forge thicker ones.Several of Kings "hand forged" balusters are simply pieced together elements.  Essentially their suppliers does the welding for you using the individually elements they sell.  So perhaps this is an option.  Jig it up straight, tack it, weld it, clean it--shouldn't take long.
Reply:Kings has twisted bar in their catalog. 8' and 19' up to 1" square. Loosly and tightly twisted.I have a decorative iron catalog (www.decorativeiron.com) that has 20' sticks up to 5/8" square.Decorative Iron is in Houston.Hobbiest hack
Reply:Thanks Dave I didn't see those.Tap I wish I could get them pick something out. For the price of hand forging the baluster she likes, she could pick out some pretty nice stuff pre-fab. I guess.I'll see what the guy in mesquite can recommend and go from thereLast edited by TPnTX; 02-12-2006 at 12:18 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by TPnTXTap I wish I could get them pick something out. For the price of hand forging the baluster she likes, she could pick out some pretty nice stuff pre-fab. I guess.
Reply:well i Sandy I can't disagree. Here is what I sent her that she liked. Attached Images
Reply:since she has to have that baluster I offered this. Attached Images
Reply:which i thinl looks better than the 1st.
Reply:Why not just cut the balusters and add what you need to the design she wants.  Off the topic--check this out for $200  http://www.ornamentalpro.com/  seems like a good deal.  However, I have been skeptical since it doesn't produce a cut list.  Though it would be great for presentations.
Reply:she wants balusters made just like the 21"s. I guess I don't know what you mean.Hey tap, send me an email would ya. [email protected]
Reply:well thats a good idea. All you need then is a PDF print driver and your good to go. I'm pretty sceptical of Software that doesn't give you a chance to eval it. You know like where it times out after 15 days. As opposed to refund.I'll look into that some more.
Reply:If you sat on the middle of a rail of scrolls without a top horizontal section wouldn't it sag. I mean all the balusters are just pretty much like weak springs aren't they.Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 02-13-2006 at 06:37 AM.
Reply:I can see why you might think that but with 25 scrolls on a 6.5' section I don't think it'll be too springy.
Reply:Harv, thanks for pointing me to Billy Epps. I just got through visiting him and He is a real blacksmith.He is going to make me a couple of samples to take to the customer.Before that I went and got me a HF bender with the scroll attachment. I may keep the bender but the scroll attachment seems to me to be a waist of time and money. Has anyone else used one of those with and luck?.
Reply:Originally Posted by TPnTXHarv, thanks for pointing me to Billy Epps. I just got through visiting him and He is a real blacksmith.He is going to make me a couple of samples to take to the customer.Before that I went and got me a HF bender with the scroll attachment. I may keep the bender but the scroll attachment seems to me to be a waist of time and money. Has anyone else used one of those with and luck?.
Reply:well I wish I could go.I really got an eye full watching how make scrolls. He didn't mention vidoes, I'll ask him.BUy 2 times the amount of Balusters needed cut off the scrolls on one set  and cut the other set in half and place the straight section in between the ones cut in half. weld and grind
Reply:You saw the date on this thread right????Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:I have used the HF unit before and did about a dozen or so it worked fine.
Reply:I sure hope he's not still working on that balcony by now. http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:If he IS still working on it (2.5 years later) I hope he's getting an HOURLY rate!Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:My bad I must have been way back in the pages!  I didnt realize it.  Just thought I would give an opinion on how to fix the problem.