Welding Aluminum to Steel question

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Long story but the Department of Justice here in California is trying to change a wording of a regulation. They want the Mags of the Ar series rifles welded to the frame as a fixed ten round rifle. After many talks with them they are saying this would be easy to do and would cost next to nothing for the consumer. My question is where would I find in writing in any welding book that it is not possible to easily do this? The Mag is mild steel and the frame is painted aluminum.
Reply:you CAN NOT weld aluminum to mild steel..but i'm sure this will be challanged also..and remember you can't weld brass to pine either... ...zap!Last edited by zapster; 07-19-2006 at 02:35 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:http://www.aws.org/wj/2005/06/038/ doesnt look cheap and easy to me. politics as usual = }
Reply:Originally Posted by jemadduxLong story but the Department of Justice here in California is trying to change a wording of a regulation. They want the Mags of the Ar series rifles welded to the frame as a fixed ten round rifle. After many talks with them they are saying this would be easy to do and would cost next to nothing for the consumer. My question is where would I find in writing in any welding book that it is not possible to easily do this? The Mag is mild steel and the frame is painted aluminum.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Sounds like someone is out to lunch when it comes to welding possibilities and also weaponry. May I suggest super glue?
Reply:Originally Posted by LuzRDhttp://www.aws.org/wj/2005/06/038/ doesnt look cheap and easy to me. politics as usual = }
Reply:This is new to me.  I'm going to have to see what's going on in the world of ARs in California.As far as bonding steel to aluminum is concerned, there are some epoxies that would work very well for this application.  The latest copy of Machine Design has some info on this.  I know that wouldn't satisfy the the CA DOJ, but it's an answer nonetheless.It's not like the DOJ is clueless.  They are trying to fix the loophole in their poorly constructed AWB ban legislation that permitted off-list lowers.  It's a fairly simple thing for someone to convert an off-list lower from a fixed mag to a detachable mag firearm, which I'm sure annoys the DOJ.  Requiring a non-reversible modification would essentially cripple these rifles and destroy their value.One can get aluminum AR magazines pretty readily.  Those can be welded in, but with all the anodizing, it'd be a pain.-Heath
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittThis is new to me.  I'm going to have to see what's going on in the world of ARs in California.As far as bonding steel to aluminum is concerned, there are some epoxies that would work very well for this application.  The latest copy of Machine Design has some info on this.  I know that wouldn't satisfy the the CA DOJ, but it's an answer nonetheless.It's not like the DOJ is clueless.  They are trying to fix the loophole in their poorly constructed AWB ban legislation that permitted off-list lowers.  It's a fairly simple thing for someone to convert an off-list lower from a fixed mag to a detachable mag firearm, which I'm sure annoys the DOJ.  Requiring a non-reversible modification would essentially cripple these rifles and destroy their value.One can get aluminum AR magazines pretty readily.  Those can be welded in, but with all the anodizing, it'd be a pain.
Reply:JB weld?welll ....politics said cheap!
Reply:This smells like a Dianne Feinstein boondoggle.  Besides the assault weapon ban sunset and that ban had nothing to do with safety or preventing crime.  Not too many crimes have been committed that I've seen on TV where someone attached someone with a bayonet!!! or decided to shoot up a bunch of people because their stock was collapsable.This is ludicrous and a waste of everyone's time.......sorry for the soapbox I happen to be a collector and the storage and record keeping requirements are a pain.
Reply:Originally Posted by jemadduxLaw enforcement officials, firearm dealers and the public should be aware that semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are modified to be temporarily incapable of accepting detachable magazines, but can be restored to accommodate detachable magazines, are assault weapons if they have any of the features listed in §12276.1(a)(1). The Department intends to exercise its power pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5(i) to adopt regulations as “necessary or proper to carry out the purposes and intent” of California law to ban assault weapons in the state.
Reply:Originally Posted by halbrittThis doesn't correlate with my understanding of things.  It was my understanding that a magazine was considered fixed if it required tools to remove.  I don't recall reading anything in California code that suggests that the ability to restore a firearm to detachable magazine configuration qualifies it as an assault weapon.
Reply:well if you read the link..it "can" be "welded" ...but in no conventional means...at least not now anyway for...or by anyone here ...so.. ...zap!Last edited by zapster; 07-19-2006 at 08:36 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:it could be done with friction stir if it were flat but friction welding might be the way to go check out this link:http://www.teamafw.com/material.htm
Reply:interesting..thanks  i have in the past "welded" pistons to cast iron.... that gets expensive too  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by jemadduxThanks, thats what I needed. You seem to have to show them everything in writing with pictures or they won't get it .
Reply:everytime ive tried that, my rod just blows through the block  . too many amps to the crank maybe?!   as i spit heinekin on my monitor......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Sure hope they let me keep my M-1 Garand......now where did I put that thing....?
Reply:I've read about friction welding a little bit lately in that it could be used to join dissimilar materials.  I don't grok the process, though.-Heath
Reply:I think the process involves liguid electricity!
Reply:I followed the link, and it appears that the limitations to the experiments (zinc plating on the steel, special filler metals, etc) leads me to believe, along with the cross section photos, that they are not welding the aluminum to the steel, but rather brazing the aluminum to the zinc coating. Friction stir welding only works with aluminum to aluminum, and it must be a butt joint.Friction welding only works with butt joints, and they have to be rotated at speed in relationship to each other, and then upset force is applied.  Not even a consideration for welding any mag to any gun I've ever seen.I go along with the suggestion of JB weld......I r 2 a perfessional
Reply:I do not know how it was done, but a place I once worked bought SS to Aluminum transition blocks. On one side was a section of aluminum for welding to aluminum pipe and the other side was SS. I was told they were VERY expensive, they would come in as a block (or billet, if you prefer), through holes were drilled or machined, the outside was cut to shape or machined, and the piece welded into place. They were making cooler units for the super-colider magnets. I believe the whole project was scraped or put in mothballs. Politics, I think. Does anybody know more on this project.Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Originally Posted by tessdadI do not know how it was done, but a place I once worked bought SS to Aluminum transition blocks. On one side was a section of aluminum for welding to aluminum pipe and the other side was SS. I was told they were VERY expensive, they would come in as a block (or billet, if you prefer), through holes were drilled or machined, the outside was cut to shape or machined, and the piece welded into place. They were making cooler units for the super-colider magnets. I believe the whole project was scraped or put in mothballs. Politics, I think. Does anybody know more on this project.
Reply:The receiver of an AR-15 is aluminum and so are most magazines for this rifle. A bigger problem would be how to load the magazine as the rounds would be very difficult to place into the magazine which is fixed to the receiver. Maybe that is what they are trying to accomplish.
Reply:Originally Posted by InjineerThe receiver of an AR-15 is aluminum and so are most magazines for this rifle. A bigger problem would be how to load the magazine as the rounds would be very difficult to place into the magazine which is fixed to the receiver. Maybe that is what they are trying to accomplish.