6G welding test, test pipe length question.

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Hi all, I'm taking the 6G pipe test tomorrow (tig root/7018 cap, x-ray) and just had to deal with a new change that I wasn't told about until a day before the test. They decided to switch out from giving us two 6" pieces of pipe to test out on, to two 4" pieces. So our total test piece will now be 8" long, not 12".My question is, have you ever heard of such short pieces being given for an X-ray 6G test?Another question is, do you know what the minimum length for these test pieces is?I tried to challenge the validity of these short pieces, but after a full hour conversation, wasn't able to get the simple answer I was looking for. I was shown in a 2010 ANSI book a small section regarding bend test coupon length requirements, but when I questioned if that's even relevant to the X-ray test, all I got was deflection from the question.I even tried calling the AWS support hotline, but that was another 1/2 an hour of telling me nothing even remotely relevant to my simple question.So I'm left with questions on the validity of these short pieces.PS, why is it so friggin hard to get a straight answer these days?
Reply:Got to deal with diversity everday as a welder.Be glad your testing and weld it out.....Just monitor your heat input, and take your time....It's just a weld, and I don't see why it matters if the overall length is 12, 8, or less.To answer your question directly, YES....I have tested and shot on shorter pieces.It's their facility and their rules! Just weld what's in front of you.And if your already challenging the QC? I'd suggest not giving him an opportunity to send you packing.GL1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11It's just a weld, and I don't see why it matters if the overall length is 12, 8, or less.
Reply:How thick is the wall on these test coupons?When I have tested for 6G pipe, I used a tree for mounting my work piece. Then I would clamp a set or two of visegrips to either my tree or the work piece to use as a rest for my hand or arm. I have seen some guys weld a branch to their tree for a hand or arm rest as well.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I can't even remember every 6G test I've taken, but I have never paid much attention to the length of the coupons. Obviously the pipe will heat up quicker so you'll probably run your heat a litter lower after you get the root in. As far as roasting your arm on the pipe goes...clamp some vice-grips on the end of the pipe for an armrest. Heres another thought...a buddy of mine says he takes his 6G tests upside down, with what would normally be the top of the test running down (make sense?). Good luck with it
Reply:i did my 6g test with 4'' 8'' total my opinion is it dont mater as long as you let the pipe cool as you weld it out. i dont know what your time limit is but if you have to weld it out fast you can reduce the heat as the pipe gets hoter that way you dont blow a hole in it. the cert i took was section 9 wich is 6010 root 7018 hot pass and cover. i would think with a tig root there would be know reason for a hot pass because there would be no wagon tracks (slag) around the root. i thought 8'' was aws standard.
Reply:Squid, just curious if they specified if the hot pass was tig or stick?I ask because at school we had freedom to try different things and many of us, including myself, ended up blowing a hole in the tig root when putting in the next pass with stick.  Due to this I started putting in a tig hot pass and never had a problem with it after that.
Reply:Originally Posted by jerry from PA i thought 8'' was aws standard.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoshDSquid, just curious if they specified if the hot pass was tig or stick?I ask because at school we had freedom to try different things and many of us, including myself, ended up blowing a hole in the tig root when putting in the next pass with stick.  Due to this I started putting in a tig hot pass and never had a problem with it after that.
Reply:JoshD, I was posting as you replied so you might have missed my comment on the TIG hot pass. I tried eliminating the TIG filler over the root once. Only once. The 7018 will blow a hole through the root on the vertical part of the pipe, between 4 and 2 o'clock. Now I always add the TIG hot pass. Anyway, I rock at the TIG part. So I'd TIG it all the way to the cap if I could.
Reply:Never took a tig/stick test where I didn't tig the hot pass and maybe a little more if nobody was looking, lol!
Reply:Don't know the standards Offhand. I have the manuals and i'll try to look it upToday.You'll want to punch me in the mouth for this but, resting your arm willHave to go man. Either vise grip it, or angle in a LARGE file to lean on.Or if your allowed to build an armrest. I'd suggest a file since you alwaysHave one on site, and it gives a nice long arm rest. Try it out.GL1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:I'm pretty damn sure minimum overall length is 7".1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:i think the minimum is six inches. i just took a test for a austrian company where we had to do a tig root and a 55 amp 3/32 7018 hot pass...they wanted us to whip the 7018 rod like it was a 6010 rod....no bull ****....weirdest thing ever
Reply:Test coupon, as welded, only needs to be 6" in length end to end, the basis for that measurement being that it was deemed the minimum length required to adequately take bend test specimens.  Technically, they can give you 3" pipe pieces with room to spare, and depending on how you interpret the code, you can go even shorter than that when using RT in lieu of bends.
Reply:Supe, it sounds like you have access to the code in question. Would you be able to provide the code number or some kind of reference number to that so I can find it?
Reply:The copy of D1.1 on my desk at the moment is 2000 Ed, but Figure 4.30/4.31 are plate test references, but you will see the 6" length there too.  When you jump back to Figure 4.12 that shows the transverse bend specimens, 6" min is referenced.  Of course, it's all clear as mud, since the AWS Codes (D1.1, D1.6, D1.4, etc) are some of the most poorly written Codes of all time, and routinely make my life miserable, and my projects infinitely more expensive.
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeOf course, it's all clear as mud, since the AWS Codes (D1.1, D1.6, D1.4, etc) are some of the most poorly written Codes of all time...
Reply:If you are working to AWS D1.1 and if you are on the 2010 edition, and if you are working to Fig 4.27 or Fig 4.29, each piece is 6"min.  there are lots and lots of other dimensions to keep track of as well.  Gtaw is interesting choice, as it is not a prequalified process
Reply:What do you mean by "prequalified process"?
Reply:D1.1 and PIPE ?But never mind, what's this blowing your stick hot passes? And using power tools during a test? And to a lesser extent, needing to prop yourself so much.It IS a foot in the door, but your typical "crutch welders" will never even see the peak of welding compensation. IMO of course.Good luck, I hope you passed. Probably, sounds like you know what you're doing. And running hot and fast IS the way!mens agitat molem
Reply:Originally Posted by ncfhD1.1 and PIPE ?
Reply:D 1.1 has some pre-qualified processes. they can be used on pre-qualified joints with no extra work.  Some of the other processes are not pre-qualified, but can still be used, if you prove them out with a PQR. GMAW short-circuit, and GTAW are some of the non-prequalified processes.  Actually the code calls them "code approved", but you have to use Clause 4 and qualify a procedure, if  you want to stay within the code.  Did your guy have a WPS for you to work from?
Reply:Length of each piece should not matter as it is being xrayed and not a destructive test and for all intents and purposes you could weld to 1/4 inch lengths of pipe together and xray it and still pass the 6G test.For destructive the joined pieces have to be 6 inches though where I work at the pieces are 10 - 12 inches for plate and pipe.  With my 6G I did 6011 root with a blow through and cleaned and fixed it and the rest was 7018 to the cap.  Each start and stop was lightly hit with a grinding wheel and any high spot was hit with the grinder.If someone is doing the 6G inverted as in they are upside down then that would qualify potentially as a restricted 6G and would command a bit more money.  The thing to keep in mind though with any AWS certs as they look good on a wall and will get you into an interview ahead of someone without one but like a soap box to stand on in front of a crowd you have to do more than have a loud voice and as such you will have to test at many serious jobs and pass their testing and certification process just as I am right now with a military contractor that builds naval ships and this has been a 4 month process at this point.
Reply:On tests I have taken with 2 inch pipe, they were 4 inches long. 6 inch pipe tests have been 6 inches long. You will encounter differences everywhere you go so its better just to make the weld and not whine about it. You will never win an argument in the test booth.UA Local 598In theory, if the pieces weren't 6" each, and if the top piece wasn't heavier wall, etc, etc.... you are not qualified to d1.1.  You mentioned that you asked AWS, so I assumed you were working to D1.1.
Reply:I believe it was QW 301.
Reply:QW-301 is the ASME IX performance qualification test section, so it wouldn't be an AWS qualification.  Even then, you're still looking at a 6" coupon.
Reply:Yep, QW references usually mean ASME IX, disregard all of my previous comments
Reply:If you are fussing this much over +/- 4" of pipe, you have a rude awakening coming when you enter welding employment. My advice, learn to weld it!!! No matter.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Originally Posted by waginIf you are fussing this much over +/- 4" of pipe, you have a rude awakening coming when you enter welding employment. My advice, learn to weld it!!! No matter.
Reply:All I can see in ASME IX:2010 is "6 inches or as required" on removal of test specimens figures QW 462.2 through QW 462.3(b)
Reply:i test every year 6g - 2" sch 160 on stainless, chromoly, inconel, and mild steel so thats 3 tig roots, with stick fill/cap, and one 6010 root. Our specimens have to come pre-beveled on the lathe 3" long so overall 6". They wont accept anything else and they are all xray'd. As for burning yourself you learn over the years how to keep your hand away from the pipe while rooting. I agree that it makes it uncomfortable but as welders we adapt to any situation! All i tell myself is... well this is sure alot more dam comfortable than being twisted up in our coal fire boiler welding with a mirror!
Reply:"Shut up and weld it," pretty much sums up my day.I think everyone is really just trying to be helpful. There is a huge difference in how you have been accommodated while in school and the real world.In my experience, the attitude of most employers/contractors/clients is this..."It''s our test, our materials, our time. F*** what you think and do it our way, or hit the highway."Your function as a welder is to give the man what he wants, you work for him or you want to work for him. Whether or not that work conforms with some standard or code is his concern.mens agitat molem
Reply:Trust me, I understand that. All I'm saying is that this wasn't for an employer, it's for an AWS cert test.
Reply:If you were working to a QW paragraph, it should be an ASME performance qualification
Reply:Fred s is right, unless your working to a in house procedure that your company has certified as a procedure with specified coupon lengths and the other nessecary information your stuck welding to the particular testing facilities procedure. They could ask for 12' long coupons, and require you to do it standing on your head if thats what they wanted.