suggestions for begineers stick welder

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Hi,im new to welding and got myself a small ac arc welder ( 40-80 amps, 115 v) to learn on.I have been practising running some beads on some scrap metal with 1/16" E6013 rod.Is this a good rod to begin learning with or should i try something else? The beads i do dont have much penetration and are more like little balls  of metal with slag between them.Im using the lowest , 40A setting, on the machine im using. I clean up the metal before using it but it seems to work the same if i leave the metal tarnished.My question is what rod should i try first to make things easier to begin with? And what is the cause of my bead being balls of metal and not being a continuous bead. (my lack of skill aside)Thank you in advance to any responders.ANdy
Reply:Hi Andy,Welcome to the The WeldingWeb.It's quite difficult to work with small diameter rods at low amperage.e.g like your 1/16 inch stick electode at 40 ampsI think you would be better off trying 5/64 inch at 60-80 amps or 3/32 inch.at 80 amps.  6013 is a good rod to begin with.The most common beginner mistake it to keep too long an arc.You might want to read my posting, "Learning to Stick Weld" - http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=44592There are other posts that you can search for that will help you.Good LuckRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:6013 isn't going to give you much penetration, especially with such low amperage.  If you want to dig a little deeper try some 6010/6011.  For nice smooth beads with medium penetration try 7018, but note that you'll need to turn the amps up a bit compared to equivalent sized 60xx rods.
Reply:Thx both for your replies. And Rick thx for the link I will read that and get some thicker rods, ill leave the thinner ones till i have more experience.Andy
Reply:With your small 80 amp ac welder, you are limited to 3/32 rods and no larger.6011 will run on your ac welder and have good penetration. 6010 will not run on your ac welder, you need dc weld current for 6010.If you want to run 7018, you will have to get 7018 ac rods. I like to run 3/32 7018 at around 90 amps so your small 80 amp machine may struggle with 3/32 7018 and it will be maxed out.7014 will run decent on ac weld current and is another good learner rod that's easy to use.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:forget the 110 v    get either an old venerable lincoln ac 225 or miller t-bolt     both have an ac/dc counter part which is even better.   For jobs around the farm I use 6011 1/8 unless its too thin.  I will use either a 3/32 or torch if I cant  do it 1/8 6011.   If its high strength or tough to weld like t1 or something I use 1/8 7018.    At work in my welding shop I use dual shield flux core, .045 and 1/16 or .035 hardwire for rails.  In the field its 7018 all the way,  1/8in    Good luck!   CHRISIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I hate 6013 ... get you some 6011 and learn to run it.
Reply:I was playing with a 115v. welder at a buddies house the other day (with 1/16 6013) and it was reallyhard to weld with. 3/32 rod was even worse.After using that,my thunderbolt welds like a dream!If you really want to learn to weld,get a 240v. machine.As said above,an a.c./d.c. model is even better.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:The AC225 machines can be found used for around $100.  You can buy them new for around $260.  The only downside to that machine is you'll need a 50amp breaker and suitable wire and plug.  If you're serious about welding I'd kick in the extra money and get a DC capable machine.  If you're not sure about welding, then get a used AC225.  You can probably resell it for the same as you paid for it.Edit: Where are you located?  You might find someone in your area that will let you use their machine and give you some pointers.  30 minutes of having someone look over your shoulder and give you pointers will be worth hours and hours of time spent struggling by yourself.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Thx to all the respondents. Im stuck with a 115v welder as i dont have access to 240v and im running my welder with a 3000w generator so i have an upper limit on power output. Im sure their is probably an engine run welder that would suit my needs but till then im stuck with my portable.Im stuck till i get some bigger rods to.Thx All
Reply:Oh, im located in Alberta, Canada. I have tried finding someone to teach me a thing or too but to no avail. I have no timeline so im happy to teach myself, well with your guys help.Andy
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI hate 6013 ... get you some 6011 and learn to run it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AndybotHi,im new to welding and got myself a small ac arc welder ( 40-80 amps, 115 v) to learn on.I have been practising running some beads on some scrap metal with 1/16" E6013 rod.Is this a good rod to begin learning with or should i try something else? The beads i do dont have much penetration and are more like little balls  of metal with slag between them.Im using the lowest , 40A setting, on the machine im using. I clean up the metal before using it but it seems to work the same if i leave the metal tarnished.My question is what rod should i try first to make things easier to begin with? And what is the cause of my bead being balls of metal and not being a continuous bead. (my lack of skill aside)Thank you in advance to any responders.ANdy
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald Branscom6013 is DC preferred. It is a all position medium penetration rod.6010 can be run on AC or DC.
Reply:Nice Volvo welding_swede i applaud you choice of vehicle.Andy
Reply:Thanks Andy,You are an outstanding judge of automobile quality! Eric
Reply:Finally the recognition i so deserve.Andy
Reply:Bigger rods wont run on a baby welder.7018 or 6010 wont run either.You are getting bum info on here.An 80 amp welder is the worst possible learning  welder.Your generator has to put out 2400 watts to run a baby welder.
Reply:I guess the question on my mind is who has an 80 amp " baby welder" that they learned on or get good results with?Also thx again for all the replies.Andy
Reply:You need to face the facts:You're NOT gonna get good results welding with that welder.Now, put that thing to good use and use it as a DOORSTOP......Get yourself a DC machine and you'll do some real nice welding..Measure twice, cut once.Millermatic 211Millermatic 251Miller Dynasty 200DXESAB O/A Set-up
Reply:I have been welding sine the mid 50s.I have tried small welders over the years.I have a Magic Wand  suit case welder that my Dad found many years ago.It can do hot carbon soldering and welding.Hard to weld with.I fixed up a small welder, gave it to a friend.It can weld but not very well.If you read the book Performance Welding the Auther says this about mig welding.If you start off welding with a low powered machine you will have a hard time and you will be soured against welding.If you dont have AC power buy a small welding generator that can supply 120 volts AC when its not welding.I have worked in shops that had welders,none used a baby welder.I still use the first welder My dad bought in the mid 50s.I bought a new Lincoln 225 AC welder when I needed more than 150 amps.You can still buy the same Lincoln welder For 270.00 new here or used for 100 bucks..The Lincoln will go down to 40 amps if you insist on using low power.I rarely weld under the 100 amp setting.
Reply:Thx for all in the info and advice. I am going to put together a battery welding machine as it makes more sense for me right now.A
Reply:Andy,   I am not in the class with the welders you have already heard from.. but I heard something yesterday which you might want to try.   I was talking to a former Marine who had been an underwater welder... ( 20 years )..  He was saying that with his 110 mig he could do just as good a job welding as I can with my Weldanpower 225  because when he needs to he uses his oxy-acet rig to preheat with... I don't know if that is true... but since you are currently limited by your machinery power you might want to try it....Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Thx GBM,thats very interesting and makes alot of sense to me. When i get the chance i will try this out.....i donty even know what mig is yet but im sure some of the same ideas come into play with stick.A
Reply:Originally Posted by AndybotThx for all in the info and advice. I am going to put together a battery welding machine as it makes more sense for me right now.AAndybot, I realize you are trying to learn welding on your own.  If you can download this;  http://www.mckaymarine.com.au/Downlo...g%20Manual.pdf  (It is a copy of the US Navy Welding Manual)  You may find this informative and helpful.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Thx again, very helpful posts.Im a mechanic so putting together a battery system would be  free for me, i even picked up a old forney 225 arc welder at the dump than i can use as an arc stabilizer and everything else i have on hand. Im lucky in that it gets to minus 50 here in the winter so having a jumper battery in every pocket and two in each car is the norm for me. Untill i counted i didnt realize how many i had.I can understand how people may be a little put of by the results they get with the wrong equipment for the right job, but im usto  that kid of thing and building tools i cant afford is the norm. The free advice is the part that makes it all possible and im very gratefull.Shorting a battery across metal to join it together is just so appealing to me.I will be safe though.A
Reply:You are welcome.  I am actually the one that posted the Youtube links in one of your other threads.  Since you have a readily available source of auto batteries then it may work out for you.  Just thought I would give another viable option which pretty much concludes all of my ideas except one.If you decide to keep your current welder then I think you should try some 5/64 diameter rods.  I have a small 50 amp 115 volt welder that I like to play with sometimes - it was a freebie.  I actually like the 5/64 rods better than the smaller 1/16 rods (1/16 = to 4/64).  The 1/16 rods are like trying to weld with a flimsy spaghetti noodle where the 5/64 have enough stiffness to control better.  Only downside is 5/64 is hard to find and is usually only available in 6013 plus it costs more than similar 3/32 rods do.  That said,sometimes you just have to do what you have to do if limited on power.  Another tip that I have used is to cut 1/16 rods in half if I just must use them - not as flimsy when only half as long.If you only do repairs like I do then the extra cost for 5/64 rods is really pretty small, where it might be much larger consideration if building large complex projects from scratch.I only wish I had known how to weld with batteries when I was younger - there is so many things I could have fixed better 30 years ago, but no internet back then....  My dad always had multiple tractors around so borrowing batteries would have been easy back then and having the capabilty to weld (even crudely) would have made repairing my dad's junk so much easier.   Ah shucks enough reminiscing.Last edited by rankrank1; 06-03-2011 at 08:06 PM.
Reply:I do intend on buying larger rods and trying those with my little welder, but like you said 5/64 is hard to find, I have no problem experimenting though. This is still fun for me.I cant wait to look at those videos, im on dialup here so i have to do it from work and the connection from work is down. I have alot to watch when its back up.Im looking at this just to do some repairs to, the cost of setting up a full welding outfit would be a total waste and it would probably sit 99 % of the time so batteries would be perfect....everything can go back to its original use except the giant inductor which is cool looking and looks like Tesla is over for tea.I really have to get to the store and get some rods.I have a question about shaded lenses and welding but it can wait im coming of a night shift.A
Reply:I think you should give your little welder to an enemy and give up on the battery powered welder.  The biggest obstacle in developing the battery powered welder that RickV had was his lack of arc welding skills and since your just learning yourself, how are you going to know if your heading in the right direction.  Also the available run time will probably be short and since you are going to be learning you'll need the most run time as possible instead of waiting for a charge.You should see if you can get any money for the Forney welder and save up and get either an inverter from Miller or Themal Arc. Weighing in at about 15 lbs these machines will run 3/32 rod 7018 rod with no problems on 110v and you still have the 220v option open to you. If you develop your skills, this will allow you to weld down to 1/8" material and if you get the TA unit you have lift-start tig option for thinner also.  Learning to weld with any rod thinner then 3/32" makes things very difficult and then you have to learn again to weld with bigger rod.  You stated that it would be a waste to spend the money on equipment that would sit 99% of the time but the little inverters will also run off a 100 ft extension cord on 110v and I've run mine off of  200 ft of ext. cord on 220v with no problems.
Reply:The cheapest way to learn to weld is to sign up at the local Jr College for the beginners stick welding class, one semester.  They supply good welders for you to use, safe instruction and plenty of rods and steel to screw up... I mean work withAge is not a factor, young or old U  can get some help.  Oh and it is FUN!U supply the few $ for the course, a good attitude.  after that you'll know exactly what drection U wish to pursue.   Step two is to read here on  WW anytime u can and learn from these guys, they know their stuff.  Finally, throw yourself at the mercy of an experienced welder, keep your yap shut and  do whatever he will let you do.  The satisfaction of saying I can safely weld steel and do it well, is  worth the path. Attached ImagesLast edited by PapaLion; 06-04-2011 at 04:20 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools