Dump body shop trailer

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After years of moving our dump bodies around using a loader to the sandblast shed, from there to the paint shop and from there to be outfitted I was finally listened to and allowed to design a trailer. By the time the body was ready to be installed it had been dropped, banged and otherwise beat up due to the fact it had to be rigged each time it had to be moved, a pia.The X bracing is 4 x 4 x 1/4 HSS, small braces are 2 x 2 x 1/4 HSS, main tube down the center is 6" sch 40, wheels and tires are 235/75-16, hubs are 1300 lbs (should have been a bit heavier but it's not going on the road). The pintle hitch on the front is rated 10,000 lbs.I'm making a hitch attachment for our forklift with the hitch fastened to a couple of pieces of 3 x 6 x 1/4 HSS and 4 x 6 x 1/2 angle.The trialer itself only weighs 750lbs, the bodies weigh 3800lbs for an11' and 4300lbs for a 13'.The picture of the body is a bit fuzzy but you'll get the drift.If it works out, I'm into it for 3 more....Mike Attached Images
Reply:Nice lookin' work, simple yet strong. I couldn't tell in the fuzzy pic if you have the body chained or bolted to the tlr. If not can the body fall off if a tlr tire runs over some object of sufficient size to make it lean over?  Hope ya get a Christmas bonus for that idea!!!                                  MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Very nice rig and work Mike.  Are the loops down near axles and support feet for tie-downs?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I would imagine that the bed rails will keep it from slipping off side-to-side.  And if ya's goin' bazillion miles an hour ya deserve it slippin' off the back, or tippin' overThat's a really nice job built on a pretty good set of ideas!  Ideas are better'n prints"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Thanks for the comments guys, much appreciated.I don't think it'll move but it will be tied down with four 2" ratchet binders in the spots Duane mentioned. Only thing will be to make sure the blaster removes the straps before he shoots it, nylon and steel shot isn't much of a competition....Mike
Reply:Nice looking dump body trailer. Should be great for what your doing with it. Lets see some welds too.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Lets see some welds too
Reply:Interesting.But if your dump body weighs 4300 lbs and the trailer weighs 750 lbs, you should have used at LEAST 5000 lb rated hubs.  Using 1300 lb rated hubs?    Even if you figure on the pintle ring pulling up half of the load, that's still about 2500 lb on the tire-end of things and 2500 lb on the pintle.And you just -know- that once the dump body in on the trailer, someone is going to climb in or on that trailer to do -something- that has to get done.  An extra weld, some paint, the sandblaster, etc.  That's easily an extra 200+ lbs (I figure you are 'real' men and not some petite honeys   If you -are- petite honeys, then post some pics  ) per person plus tools and equipment climbing in/on/over/under that thing.  For working -under- the equipment, you want to make nothing fails.  For climbing in/on/over the equipment, you want to make sure nothing fails.And is there an way to make the "track" (axle/hub spacing) wider for more stability?  It looks like the tires are inboard of the edges of the dump body.  If they could be outboard/wider than the body, even by just a little bit, it would increase the side-to-side stability.If you put some pins through the mounting ears into/through the ribs underneath the dump body, you could eliminate the ratchet straps.  If you can't put holes through the under structure of the dump body, then maybe rig up something like a C-clamp with the ear on the trailer being the 'fixed' pad of the clamp and then you pretty much just need some threaded rod and brackets to make the 'clamp' to grab onto the under structure of the body.It doesn't have to fly, make it beefy and strong.  Especially so it can stand up to some overuse/abuse from the yard apes, ahem, coworkers.  Attached Images  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:But if your dump body weighs 4300 lbs and the trailer weighs 750 lbs, you should have used at LEAST 5000 lb rated hubs. Using 1300 lb rated hubs?
Reply:Blasting media and paint resistant?  How about toggle clamps?  No extra holes in the dump body, no threads to get crudded.re: the hubs.  Speed matters as to bearings and balance and such.  But the 'raw' weight also matters to the bearings.  I'd really-really-really recommend to put 5000 lb hubs/spindles there.  Or bigger.  Those little 1300 lb hubs really aren't beefy enough to hold up 5000 lbs, even at just 3 mph.  Leave the rest of the trailer but put the 'proper' hubs on.It's just some cutting and welding, right?    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Good looking rig. I have a question though. Why no bottom brace between the hubs although there is one on the stand end?I'll also point out that even if the wheels are the same width as the benches you were using, the wheels are moving and the benches weren't. I think I would have made the wheel width as wide as the bed. It wouldn't bother the blasters and painters unless they have really big feet and the load would be more stable.
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikey...The trailer itself only weighs 750lbs,                    the bodies weigh ...4300lbs...
Reply:spindle/hub assemblies are generally rated PER SPINDLE.  Not like, let's say a 2000lb. axle, which is rated in TOTAL CAPACITY.This unit that he's built has 2 1300lb. capacity spindles capable of carrying 2600lbs combined.  Factor in the engineered safety allowances, the capacity may be 2x that.You'll never see a better balanced load than what you have here.  Perfectly proportioned between hitch and axle.  2500 at either end.It's the proper spindle for the jobLast edited by farmersamm; 12-05-2008 at 12:31 PM.Reason: spindle"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by denrep4300 + 750 = 5050 total weight    5050 ÷ 2 = 2525 weight per end1300 per hub x 2  = 2600lbs capacity at axle end =  No problemo
Reply:Originally Posted by OldtimerGood looking rig. I have a question though. Why no bottom brace between the hubs although there is one on the stand end?I'll also point out that even if the wheels are the same width as the benches you were using, the wheels are moving and the benches weren't. I think I would have made the wheel width as wide as the bed. It wouldn't bother the blasters and painters unless they have really big feet and the load would be more stable.
Reply:A stretcher across the rear wouldn't hurt.  It would keep the camber stable on the wheels, and add strength.  It wouldn't necessarily need to be more than 11ga. tubing.  Mostly a tension load."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammspindle/hub assemblies are generally rated PER SPINDLE.  Not like, let's say a 2000lb. axle, which is rated in TOTAL CAPACITY.This unit that he's built has 2 1300lb. capacity spindles capable of carrying 2600lbs combined.  Factor in the engineered safety allowances, the capacity may be 2x that.You'll never see a better balanced load than what you have here.  Perfectly proportioned between hitch and axle.  2500 at either end.It's the proper spindle for the job
Reply:Per Dexter Axle:"Axle capacity will be reduced by at least 50% when used without a suspension system (axles or stubs attached directly to vehicle frame)."  Direct quote.  Yes that applies more for road trailers at road speeds, but even a low-speed trailer will see greater loads than just the weight of the trailer+load due to inclines, drive-line snatch/shock, and surface irregularities.  Plus the yard-ape factor.  Plus the "Hey Joe, since you're pulling that new dump body over to the blasting shed and the delivery truck dropped off the blasting media here at the main shop, why don't you put those four pallets of media in the dump and drag it all over to the shed.  Saves me driving the loaded forklift all over the yard four times there and back.  Bruno can use his little forklift by the shed to pull them out of the dump body."   There's another two tons in the body and on the trailer.Plus I see spindles also rated per PAIR, not per spindle.  So I'm not all that sure that Mike's spindles are 1300 lb rated per each or per pair.  http://www.trailerpart.com/spindles.htmAlso, although the lunette eye is 'rated' 10,000 lb, again per Dexter the SAE Application Type II eye/hook is rated for vertical hitch loads greater than 5% but not exceeding 20% of the towed vehicle weight.  The Type I eye/hook is for vertical loads not exceeding 5% of the towed vehicle weight.  So, 20% of a 10,000 lb rated lunette eye is 2000 lbs rated for the vertical load at that end.  So that leaves 3000 lbs back on the wheels and hubs.  Which means they are then overloaded.  Or you are putting 2500 lbs vertical on the lunette eye and then IT is overloaded vertically.  And if it is a 10,000 lb Type I eye (rated for 5% of trailer weight as vertical load), then the eye is grossly overloaded.And from the one (blurry) picture of the dump body on the trailer, I can't really tell how much overhang there is from the back of the body behind the axle.  So we can't -really- tell where the CG of the load is with respect to the axle and the lunette eye.Details -can- make a difference when you are near a design/material limit.  And to me, having 5000 lbs on even two 1300 lb-rated spindles and relying on an even 50-50 weight distibution in order to not overload the spindles is pushing things.I'd rather err on the side of overkill and extra capacity, than on having exact 50-50 weight distribution.  If those spindles are 1300 lb rated per pair, they are waaaay too light.If they are 1300 lbs rated per each and even with perfect 50-50 weight distribution (see above about lunette eye weight rating), I'd still say they are kind of iffy.The 235-75R16 wheels and tires -should- be OK for the load.  Double check the sidewall ratings.And +1 on the cross-brace between the wheels.  Even if you can't put it right 'behind' the hubs because of the hub mounting bolts,  you could run it just above the hubs.  Either 'inside' the trailer X-brace like on the front end or just two square tubes flush welded  on the 'front' and 'back' of the X-brace (like roofing collar ties).Don't forget the wheel chocks!Last edited by MoonRise; 12-05-2008 at 01:35 PM.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Well, if the eye is rated at 10k, not to EXCEED 5% VERTICAL LOAD of the TOWED VEHICLE(10k gross), it would mean that the hitch weight, ie. vertical load, could be at or above 10k.  Pintle hooks are very popular hitches on dozer trailers pulled by dump trucks.  There's a large amt. of weight on the hitch.More when my fingers warm up, been trying to work in the shop, and it got down in the 20's last nite.  It's still cold in the container.Some pics to follow"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Moonrise-  You're right!  Sorry.  I just checked out a similar eye from Titan where the specs were expressed in tongue load.  2000lbs.  for a 3" ductile eye."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So, ok, he's a few lbs. over  That's probably a fully loaded trailer movin' 75mph over potholes  Probably pulled by some wild eyed dude on uppers to stay awake"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Trailers are a great excuse to stay outta the cold today  Good conversation"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Sam,An eye rated 10,000 lbs means it can PULL a 10,000 lb load.  And 20% of that 10,000 lb means the vertical load (aka tongue weight) is not supposed to exceed 2000 lb.Because the eye is made to pull, and excessive 'side' loads on the eye can bend/snap it.  Part of the reason 'new' lift eyes are the pivoting style instead of the fixed eyebolts, side loading has less chance of bending them and snapping them.Trailers are made to support most of their load on themselves and only a small fraction is supposed to transfer to the tow vehicle (big rig tractor trailors notwithstanding.  Guidelines for a tow-behind trailer are about 10% tongue weight for a ball-hitch and 25% for a gooseneck/fifthwheel hitch.  The other 90%/75% of the load weight is supposed to be supported by the trailer wheels/axles.So for a 10,000 load (aka the load on the trailer), that eye is supposed to have a MAX of 2000 lbs tongue weight transfered to the tow vehicle and the other 8000 lbs or whatever the balancing of the weight works out to be, in this case 10,000 lb total trailer/load weight -  tongue weight (max 2000 lbs) is supposed to be supported by the trailer.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Ahh, you posted while I was composing my reply there Sam.Discussion is good.  And it seems we mostly agree on the ratings there.  That 10,000 lb eye has at BEST a 2000 lb tongue weight rating.If it's a Type I eye, it has a max 500 lb tongue weight rating.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Ok, back to the spindles.  I seriously think they'll be fine.I towed this seed drill on this shop built dolly from Pawnee to where I'm at (35mi.) over paved and unpaved roads at approximately 35mph.  It held up fine.The dolly sits under the rear iron press wheels, while the rest of the machine stays on the rubber tired front wheels.  It's a rear heavy drill.  They're called hoe drills because they use a shank to open the furrow instead of a disc.  Very heavy units.I don't have a really good pic of the drill from the side, so ya gotta put up with my skinny azz lookin' at yaSpindles were the cheapest spindles on earth when I built the dolly, and the chevy wheels are the wrong offset for the application.  If they had been the right offset, I could have stubbed the spindle much shorter  But it worked fine. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/...spindles are 1300 lb rated per each or per pair
Reply:That dump body carrier is an outstanding invention!  Well done!!!I will always remember that the red pins go in the yellow holes.And Farmersamm posted a real nice picture of a man who is out standing in his field - next to the seed drill! -MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:The proof is in the pictures.  Looks great MikeBut unknown to the viewers......................4 seconds after the pic the dump slid off, taking out the right side of the pickup, flipping the trailer, ripping the mast off the forklift, finally winding up in the break room totally demolishing 3 perfectly good boxes of day old donuts.  The sound of the exploding tires was heard in the next province, while shards of the sheared spindles wound up embedded a phone pole well over 100 yards away"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I knew it, I knew somebody was going to say that, why....because I thought the same thing myself, ( the body falling off, not the donuts). By the way, I'll have you know the donuts are not a day old neither, thank you very much,  you're lucky if they last 5 minutes Actually, the character driving the forklift offered to dump it on the truck for a coffee (he doesn't like the driver).....Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikeyI knew it, I knew somebody was going to say that, why....because I thought the same thing myself, ( the body falling off, not the donuts). By the way, I'll have you know the donuts are not a day old neither, thank you very much,  you're lucky if they last 5 minutes Actually, the character driving the forklift offered to dump it on the truck for a coffee (he doesn't like the driver).....Mike
Reply:I think, this was an excellent solution, to the problem the op originally posted about.   Sure, there may be improvements somewhere along the line,,,,,,   but hey, realize the Wright bros. didn't have all the answers right off the bat either!     Everybody that has posted critiques, or any other "better" ways of doing something here,,,,,,,,,,,,,   remember, this was only designed to be hooked up to, and dragged backwards, and sometimes pushed forwards, by a forklift.    Kudos to the OP,,,,,,   depending on who you're working for, and how you play your cards,,,,,,   you may very well end up owning the company in a few years.
Reply:Ummm, Mike,The tires are rated 1750 lbs @ 50 psi?  Each?That's a load capacity for the tires of 3500 lbs.  And your 'heavy' dump body load is 5000+ lbs.  Ooooops.  One problem with using something 'outside' its 'parameters', is that you are IT.You can't go and say that it was the tire's fault if it fails and was overloaded.You can't go and say it was the spindle's fault  if it fails and was overloaded.Ohh, and decent looking welds.  Even and consistent bead size and shape from what I can see.  But try not to put a start or stop -on- a corner, try to wrap around at least a little bit.Maybe say that this one was Model-1A, the funtional prototype and rolling proof-of-concept.  Then make a few 'tweaks' and call it Model-2, the 'production' model.  Mostly the axle width (go a little wider for the added stability), go with a full axle instead of stubs, go with a 5000 lb rated axle unit, put some cross-bracing on the back X-brace, that sort of thing.Oh, and your straps are dragging by the axle end.  See if you can borrow some of Sam's nuclear orange safety paint.  So that no one misplaces the trailer and such.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Cool post Moonrise."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Not supposed to weld chain????I've got to go find my torch.  I think I'll be busy for a while...Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseUmmm, Mike,The tires are rated 1750 lbs @ 50 psi?  Each?That's a load capacity for the tires of 3500 lbs.  And your 'heavy' dump body load is 5000+ lbs.  Ooooops.  One problem with using something 'outside' its 'parameters', is that you are IT.You can't go and say that it was the tire's fault if it fails and was overloaded.You can't go and say it was the spindle's fault  if it fails and was overloaded.Ohh, and decent looking welds.  Even and consistent bead size and shape from what I can see.  But try not to put a start or stop -on- a corner, try to wrap around at least a little bit.Maybe say that this one was Model-1A, the funtional prototype and rolling proof-of-concept.  Then make a few 'tweaks' and call it Model-2, the 'production' model.  Mostly the axle width (go a little wider for the added stability), go with a full axle instead of stubs, go with a 5000 lb rated axle unit, put some cross-bracing on the back X-brace, that sort of thing.Oh, and your straps are dragging by the axle end.  See if you can borrow some of Sam's nuclear orange safety paint.  So that no one misplaces the trailer and such.
Reply:Very few people realize the structural integrity orange paint imparts to the overall weldment"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Tyres?  On the lorry?  And what colour would that be again?Quick, grab a torch, the lights went out!  No, not the welding torch you %#$$%@ !  The torch so we can see!  (translation into American: get a flashlight).  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Does %^$%#@ mean "bollocks ya twit", or just plain "ya dweeb"?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammVery few people realize the structural integrity orange paint imparts to the overall weldment
Reply:Yeah, it fills those cracks and pinholes right up.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I see a pretty spiffy design here Mr Mike, ya ought to be proud of it.  If you've got another to build then you can make inmprovements on the next one.  With all the posts about this or that is not right, I say use it and abuse it with some common sense so no one gets hurt and gives cr*p if it fails.  You've already proved that ya got a welder and know how to use it.  If it does fail you will know where to make improvements on the next one.  The other thing that I see is that it WORKS.Good Job and thanks for the post.Mack
Reply:I say use it and abuse it with some common sense so no one gets hurt and gives cr*p if it fails. You've already proved that ya got a welder and know how to use it. If it does fail you will know where to make improvements on the next one. The other thing that I see is that it WORKS.