Projecting My First Project

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I'm planning on welding together what will be a somewhat heavy, but fixed, 11 foot ladder, using 1/8" 1"x 2" rectangular tube steel, each rung 12" on center, and was wondering on a suggested sequence to go about it. I'm considering welding all rungs to one rail at a time (flat on its side), then flipping it over for the second rail. I'm concerned however, if it might be wise to first tack all rungs to both rails before securing anything. Would it be advisable to just complete one rung at a time, moving from one end to the other, to both rails conjunctively?
Reply:To make a correct ladder ( osha approved)  the two verticals should have holes in them @ the correct spacing with the rungs extending through them then welded, not just butt welded to the vertical rails.
Reply:Also, ladder rungs must now be made from a non-skid type material. Smooth round stock is no longer permitted. A lot of manufacturers are using re-bar.
Reply:We tried re-bar once and it turned brittle from welding.  Caused a rung to break and a worker to get injured.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dAlso, ladder rungs must now be made from a non-skid type material. Smooth round stock is no longer permitted. A lot of manufacturers are using re-bar.
Reply:A lot of rebar is not meant to be welded and will not weld well, There is weldable rebar available but you have to specify it and make sure thats what you actually get.
Reply:I haven't personally made any from re-bar, but the company I work for has bought a couple off-the-shelf ladders lately that have had re-bar rungs. Of course they didn't fit where they wanted them to, so we ended up modifying them!...lol...
Reply:To make a long lasting durable ladder you will need to have your rungs go though the verticals, Apox. 1/8 to 1/4 will do. Then put a fillet weld all the way around inside and out or just outside. To make it square: assemble the ladder completely with out welding first. Put a tack on the end rungs on both sides. Run a tape from one corner to catty corner. adjust until they are equal measurements. Tack all your other rungs in place while checking ID or OD measurements. Recheck for square. Weld all four corners. Weld rungs in sequence from one side to the other of the same rung. skipping one rung down the ladder. Complete by going back and welding the skipped rungs. When I build a ladder I will usually check square many times before completely welding it out. And have it securely clamped to a flat fab table. Good Luck!
Reply:You cannot weld non weldable rebar safely, its carbon content is so high it will just fracture.ALSO... If you put your full weight on a rebar ladder rung it will push up on the tendon that stretches between the ball of your foot and the heel and tear the tendon.A VERY BAD IDEA.The ladder rungs should be as wide as the ones on a wood ladder to prevent injury to your foot.No ladder should be used at less than a 15º angle ,it is unsafe.The steps on the ladder should be angled too. To prevent injury to your foot.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by QCSomersTo make a long lasting durable ladder you will need to have your rungs go though the verticals, Apox. 1/8 to 1/4 will do. Then put a fillet weld all the way around inside and out or just outside. To make it square: assemble the ladder completely with out welding first. Put a tack on the end rungs on both sides. Run a tape from one corner to catty corner. adjust until they are equal measurements. Tack all your other rungs in place while checking ID or OD measurements. Recheck for square. Weld all four corners. Weld rungs in sequence from one side to the other of the same rung. skipping one rung down the ladder. Complete by going back and welding the skipped rungs. When I build a ladder I will usually check square many times before completely welding it out. And have it securely clamped to a flat fab table. Good Luck!
Reply:Rebar can work for ladders if your not going to be standing on them a long time. Here is pictures of one of my ladder stands that I bow hunt from. I have been using these for over thirty years. My friend Andy hunts off of them and goes a little over 300 pounds, no problems, no breaks. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomYou cannot weld non weldable rebar safely, its carbon content is so high it will just fracture.ALSO... If you put your full weight on a rebar ladder rung it will push up on the tendon that stretches between the ball of your foot and the heel and tear the tendon.A VERY BAD IDEA.The ladder rungs should be as wide as the ones on a wood ladder to prevent injury to your foot.No ladder should be used at less than a 15º angle ,it is unsafe.The steps on the ladder should be angled too. To prevent injury to your foot.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomRebar rungs!!! Very bad for the foot. Sure to cause injury the tendon on the bottom of the foot. Some day we will have laws to prevent this kind of poor design that injures people.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomRebar rungs!!! Very bad for the foot. Sure to cause injury the tendon on the bottom of the foot. Some day we will have laws to prevent this kind of poor design that injures people.
Reply:Thanks to all, for the wealth of information provided. While it was never my intention to cut any corners with this project, I'm somewhere between a rock on it, and would appreciate a bit more perspective. Would anyone feel hesitant climbing a ladder comprised of rungs, that did not pass through, yet were instead butt welded to their rails, if you were confident in the integrity of those welds?
Reply:man 10 minutes a side with a cutting torch you can pass them through, now if you want to jazz it up a bit you can use a hole saw, which will take longer but produce a nicer hole. butt welding rungs is just not a good idea. Especially if they are round ones because those are usually small and have very little meat to them to weld to. If you want to butt weld it make your rungs out of C channel and give it a 100% weldout, that way at least you have a significant weld. As well if you are going to put the ladder in a fixed position you can put the rungs at a nice angle where it will make climbing the ladder easy.72 Chevy Cummins Project94 3500HD Welding Rig build Sold NOV 2011
Reply:Originally Posted by KutNKornerz. Would anyone feel hesitant climbing a ladder comprised of rungs, that did not pass through, yet were instead butt welded to their rails, if you were confident in the integrity of those welds?
Reply:Originally Posted by BobRebar can work for ladders if your not going to be standing on them a long time. Here is pictures of one of my ladder stands that I bow hunt from. I have been using these for over thirty years. My friend Andy hunts off of them and goes a little over 300 pounds, no problems, no breaks.
Reply:Originally Posted by MrBeastbutt welding rungs is just not a good idea. Especially if they are round ones because those are usually small and have very little meat to them to weld to.
Reply:So you're wanting to use the 1 X 2 for rungs as well as rails? Is this for personal or business use? OSHA says rungs must be a minimum of 3/4" diameter, but that is for round rungs. Not sure what to think about the rectangular ones. I need to think/research that one a bit....
Reply:Originally Posted by bravofabas with most things ..... FAIL!. there IS WELDABLE rebar it is astm A706  and welding procedures are outlined in AWS D1.4. The rungs do not have to be counter-sunk into the rails (but it is advisable).please show an osha spec.? i have istalled vertical, in more corperate and goverment facitlities than i can count and i have never been told not to install staight vert.
Reply:Here is a link to an interesting thread...http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=126138
Reply:Originally Posted by welds4dSo you're wanting to use the 1 X 2 for rungs as well as rails? Is this for personal or business use? OSHA says rungs must be a minimum of 3/4" diameter, but that is for round rungs. Not sure what to think about the rectangular ones. I need to think/research that one a bit....
Reply:Industrially, it's not so much a requirement as it is a 'standard work practice'. We're usually talking about 3/4" solid steel rod, where holes are punched or drilled through the rails, the rods stuck through, and welded. This way, if a weld were to fail, the rod is still supported by the rail. Since you're talking about a residential application you may be better off talking to a local building inspector for accecptable design details for your area. Personally, if I had to use those materials, I would probably just weld the rungs between the rails without worrying about the tabs, making sure to weld completely around each rung. I still think you would be better off with a 3/4" round rung, drilled through, though. Those 1 X 2 rungs seem to me like they will be hard to grip safely.
Reply:Given the mindset of the inspectors who scrutinize these properties, designing it to the specifics of code never really entered into it, as we both found it unlikely such a ladder, particularly one bolted to the wall, would ever meet code to begin with. He lives in a second story duplex, so access to it will be limited to his private use, and removed when he moves. I believe the reasoning for the 1 x 2 was based on strength, and the idea to overbuild rather than under, then personal aesthetics. Given the amount of welding, I never expected strength would be an issue, and the responses here have definitely opened my eyes, and mind.\ At first, I assumed he wanted a degree of pitch, and was only his interest to make it vertical, when it seemed a bit unusual to me. Aluminum ladders while thinner, commonly have both larger rungs and rails, but also include pitch when open. So, I can see your point in regards the difficulty of use, especially for a girl, or someone with smaller hands.Last edited by KutNKornerz; 06-21-2011 at 07:17 PM.Originally Posted by Old Skool1910.27 (b) (7) (iii) in my book specifies 3/4" minimum  1" maximum ROUND stock for rungs. Diagram clearly shows rungs extending through side bars.
Reply:Originally Posted by KutNKornerzGiven the mindset of the inspectors who scrutinize these properties, designing it to the specifics of code never really entered into it, as we both found it unlikely such a ladder, particularly one bolted to the wall, would ever meet code to begin with. He lives in a second story duplex, so access to it will be limited to his private use, and removed when he moves. I believe the reasoning for the 1 x 2 was based on strength, and the idea to overbuild rather than under, then personal aesthetics. Given the amount of welding, I never expected strength would be an issue, and the responses here have definitely opened my eyes, and mind.\ At first, I assumed he wanted a degree of pitch, and was only his interest to make it vertical, when it seemed a bit unusual to me. Aluminum ladders while thinner, commonly have both larger rungs and rails, but also include pitch when open. So, I can see your point in regards the difficulty of use, especially for a girl, or someone with smaller hands.
Reply:Originally Posted by bravofabWELL.. remember that ladders Are different than stairs And  emergency egress is treated differently than common access . the most likely way to violate codes on a "vert. emrg. escape ladder" would be 1) lack of a back cage, normaly one would be required above 6 feet. 2) no pass through at the top, typ hand rail would extend 42 in above the hightest point your feet would go over.