1 1/2 OD pipe handrail

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I may have a fab job(first paying one) to fab up some handrails. The drawing calls for 1 1/2inch OD pipe. It must also be primed and painted at a later time by someone else. It needs to be A106 grade. These are all the specs it gives. Would standard Schd 40 pipe work? Does it always come prepainted black? Can I get unfinished plain steel pipe?Sorry for the newb question but I just don't know and figured a few of you cats might have some good information.'Mike
Reply:We use plain unfinished 1 1/2" tube. Pre-bend and fab 90% in the shop and finish the rest on site. The inside doesn't have the seam so it's easy to join sections with a plug or wedgelock, then weld and blend smooth. Wall thickness is about .125 and ID comes in about 1 1/4".That black stuff is nasty and the finish is too rough for most.We did this for the local boys and girls club, donated most of the labor. It's just primed grey by us. Some of the runs are about 35' continuous.
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715I may have a fab job(first paying one) to fab up some handrails. The drawing calls for 1 1/2inch OD pipe. It must also be primed and painted at a later time by someone else. It needs to be A106 grade. These are all the specs it gives. Would standard Schd 40 pipe work? Does it always come prepainted black? Can I get unfinished plain steel pipe?Sorry for the newb question but I just don't know and figured a few of you cats might have some good information.'Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by 9erWe use plain unfinished 1 1/2" tube. Pre-bend and fab 90% in the shop and finish the rest on site. The inside doesn't have the seam so it's easy to join sections with a plug or wedgelock, then weld and blend smooth. Wall thickness is about .125 and ID comes in about 1 1/4".That black stuff is nasty and the finish is too rough for most.We did this for the local boys and girls club, donated most of the labor. It's just primed grey by us. Some of the runs are about 35' continuous.
Reply:It sounds like those drawings were made by an engineer or, worse, an architect. They both manage to give you specific but essentially meaningless information (like the exact alloy/grade of pipe) and then give contradicting but otherwise important information (like the size of pipe) for handrails. It seems that the more 'schooling' someone has that works around construction the harder time they have in grasping the concept that pipe sizes are nominal and by internal diameter. I once spent more then 10 minutes trying to pound it into an architect's head that 1-1/2" pipe is not 1-1/2" OD. One of the many reasons I hate architects.If the drawings you are working off of were made by an architect I can almost guarantee that you will not have all the dimensions you need. We usually spend more time requesting and waiting on the stupid architects to give us the dimensions we need than we do actually fabricating the rails. Most of the time we end up just going out to the site and measuring the concrete as-poured by the other contractors. Naturally, the as-poured dimensions rarely match up with the prints because the architects didn't give the concrete guys enough information either. Stupid architects.Anyway, at the fab shop I work at we do quite a few handrails. The vast majority of the time when those stupid architects call for a 1-1/2" OD hand rail, we use 1-1/4" pipe as it's OD is roughly 1-5/8" (1.66" to be exact). We normally contact them before starting fabrication to confirm that this is acceptable and 99% of the time it is. So far there has been only one occasion that I am aware of where they demanded that we use 1-1/2" tube. We had to special order the tube and bending dies and charge much more because of it.As far as finish of the pipe, I would suggest only using bare pipe as opposed to pre-painted (technically I think its lacquered). Most of the lacquered pipe that I've seen has a pretty rough finish (I think the lacquer is poured on the pipe rather that sprayed) and often has markings painted/printed along the length. To get a good final paint job you will still have to sand and paint the whole railing. Furthermore, if you ever do railings that need to be galvanized, you won't be able to use lacquered pipe as the acid cleaning the galvanizer uses will not fully remove it thus causing the galvanizing to not work properly. Not to mention welding on lacquered pipe smells really bad unless you spend an inordinate amount of time grinding the coating off.Finally, most of the time we use both Schd. 40 and thinwall pipe on the same rail. The thinwall is cheaper so we use it on the long straight horizontal sections. However, the thinwall is harder to bend without kinking/tearing so we make the sections that require bending out of the heavier Schd. 40. We also use the Schd 40. on the vertical posts for strength. Since the Schd 40 and thinwall have the same OD (1.66") you can't really tell on the finished rail where the thinwall was used and where the Schd 40 was used. Stupid architects.Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:having dealt with architects i can almost bet it was one of them that drew it up.  they are nothing more artists that put parts together without know how it is done or can it even work.according to the ada codes a handrail is supposed to be 1-1/2 inches wide hence the request of hand rail width  also the hand rail is suppose to support a certain weight over a given length and have a specific number of supports.  all they do look up what they want and request it.  as for the seamless part they don't know the seam is on the inside and can not be seen or felt on the outside.i had to deal with this same scenario last year.  i mocked up a small rail and carried it to the architect.  after he saw it he said yeah that is what i want.  he didn't know what he was talking about, but he could draw up and design an incredible building.  that wasn't the only thing he had problems with and the builder eventually called in an engineer to work with the architect.  i wish i had been a fly on the wall in that office.
Reply:as tensai says 1 1/4 inch sch 40 is a tad more than 1.5  inches,, and  several have aptly pointed out that the specification is written by pinheads and know- nothings, so a discussion is necessary to determine what actually gets built and paid for..often very  helpful to have a sample accepted and signed  off by the customer..no questions later..just a check
Reply:Originally Posted by TensaitekiIt sounds like those drawings were made by an engineer or, worse, an architect. They both manage to give you specific but essentially meaningless information (like the exact alloy/grade of pipe) and then give contradicting but otherwise important information (like the size of pipe) for handrails. It seems that the more 'schooling' someone has that works around construction the harder time they have in grasping the concept that pipe sizes are nominal and by internal diameter. I once spent more then 10 minutes trying to pound it into an architect's head that 1-1/2" pipe is not 1-1/2" OD. One of the many reasons I hate architects.If the drawings you are working off of were made by an architect I can almost guarantee that you will not have all the dimensions you need. We usually spend more time requesting and waiting on the stupid architects to give us the dimensions we need than we do actually fabricating the rails. Most of the time we end up just going out to the site and measuring the concrete as-poured by the other contractors. Naturally, the as-poured dimensions rarely match up with the prints because the architects didn't give the concrete guys enough information either. Stupid architects.
Reply:[QUOTE=Tensaiteki;247862] It seems that the more 'schooling' someone has that works around construction the harder time they have in grasping the concept that pipe sizes are nominal and by internal diameter. I once spent more then 10 minutes trying to pound it into an architect's head that 1-1/2" pipe is not 1-1/2" OD. One of the many reasons I hate architects.QUOTE]Here's a concept to grasp, some pipe is sized the way you describe, a lot of it isn't. A lot of pipe is called out by O.D. X Wall thickness.JTMcC.
Reply:LOL.  You guys really give me a chuckle.  Thanks for the descriptions.  I never had to deal with architects but with engineers.  They are likely cut from the same tree from what I can see.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardWho the heck wants a "hand rail" made from seamless pipe?What are you talking about "pre-painted black" pipe???Pipe is not identified by it's OD. Tubing is, but tubing and A106 are not related. As to what would work You need to be asking the guy is is NOT going to pay you when you make it from the wrong material. You or your customer or both are confused and need to talk to each other not a bunch of strangers on the internet. Good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by VipernutYikes! Someone needs a nappy...
Reply:after spending 20 years in residential construction i found it quite humorous to watch engineers and architects "work it out".  what is even more fun is having them both come out to a volunteer charity building site and watch them try and get their minds around reality.  it is great to see an uneducated carpenter show them both up.in my new life melting metal, i had an engineer come out and look at a part and ask what it was.  i told him what it was and he said, "oh...i have been drawing them for years and have never seen one."  our biggest obstacle in getting a job done was getting the print right.  i am glad i don't have to be under that kind of stress.  i am lucky to get the computer to turn on and type this post.
Reply:In the few minutes I've been offline I did a quicky search. Go to www.sharontube.com for dimensions.Hell, it don't take much.You can find every spec for just about any material online.  Most suppliers give ID, OD, or WALL THICKNESS.  Do some research"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:i manage construction at a nys prison. EVERY set of drawings we get from design firms sucks too badly to be built. the contractors get overpriced change orders and lucrative delay claims.tax money right in the s***ter.BIG money
Reply:Thanks for the info guys. I am just starting out as a 'legit" business and am trying to avoid as many pitfalls as I can. Thanks for all the suggestions.'Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIn the few minutes I've been offline I did a quicky search. Go to www.sharontube.com for dimensions.Hell, it don't take much.You can find every spec for just about any material online.  Most suppliers give ID, OD, or WALL THICKNESS.  Do some research
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat Bastard... not vary educated.
Reply:Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicThe website cannot be found is the message i get.
Reply:Gonna try thisHell, it didn't work.How do you downsize a damn PDF  to upload it???"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGonna try thisHell, it didn't work.How do you downsize a damn PDF  to upload it???
Reply:I'm an engineer and have ripped many a designer a new arse for stuff like you guys describe; it's hard to find someone that has practical knowledge, in any field.  Don't just pick on us dumb engineers, LOL!The problem lies not only with the individual, but the mentor and companys as well.  I busted my hump to 'reeducate' a young designer that had talent and no discipline.  After three years (and many 'on-the-floor' discussions), he was spot-on and proactive.  So much so he got a better offer, and walked out the door w/o management making a counter; I left shortly thereafter...Chris...posting worthless stuff...
Reply:Originally Posted by exothermThat much is VERY clear.
Reply:FB,The Cpap works for me.  Since the last year or so,  I have racked up 3800 hours on it.  Mine has a C-flex system that works similar to the BiPap but much smoother transition.Maybe after a little use you can get the mod to change your Name to ...Fat Nicey.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardThat make you feel better?I'm new to the site, but as far as handrail goes, me and my guys installed right at 22,000 LF last year, and I just signed another contract last week to bring our to date total install footage (currently under contract) to 38,400 LF of 2" sch 40 and 1 1/2" sch 40, so me and my guys have apretty good rope on this detail. I can tell you right now, the tool that increased field production 100% was the Mitler Bros pipe/tube notcher. I now have one on every truck I own, and would not give it up for the world.
Reply:Mitler makes some nice stuff a little pricey but I know the guys that use it say its worth every penny from the notcher to the bender.
Reply:Originally Posted by exothermA sense of humor and a thicker skin can really come in handy when you are "speaking in direct declarative terms".