outside hand rails with tube

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My older neighbor really wants her old rusted hand rails replaced with some tube if possible.  She knows that I have experience welding, so she asked me if I could help her grandson out with it.  I would really like to help her out as she is a good neighbor and will shoot alittle cash my way.  The steps are located at the front door and are concrete.  She is planning on having whatever is installed, recessed into the concrete about 3".  She wants two hand rails on either side of the stairs.  I have some pretty simple ideas, on the lay out but could definately use some good advice from those out there with more experience.  I have the dimensions and measurements and could relay them if needed for certain formulas.  Let me know if anybody out there can. thanks and have a good day.
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...andrail+layoutWood works as a layout table, too.  Are there holes in the concrete already.  I prefer plates and shoe covers.  Plates actually increase the stability of the rail,  easily replacable and less likely to promote cracking and rusting.Good luck with your project.
Reply:Round tube or square?  I have used 2" x 14ga. square with 5/16" solid round for the bars.  It's easy to drill holes in the tube, then insert the rod, weld around them.  Looks nice.  For the feet I would hammer drill holes for 3/8" all thread, embed 2-3" and epoxy in with RedHead C6, then put leveling nuts and flats under the feet and flats, locks, nuts on the top side.  1" of grout under the foot would be sufficient.  Check with local building codes for rod spacing.  Some places it's like 3 9/16" or some retarded distance to meet code.
Reply:Originally Posted by PipelinerRound tube or square?  I have used 2" x 14ga. square with 5/16" solid round for the bars.  It's easy to drill holes in the tube, then insert the rod, weld around them.  Looks nice.  For the feet I would hammer drill holes for 3/8" all thread, embed 2-3" and epoxy in with RedHead C6, then put leveling nuts and flats under the feet and flats, locks, nuts on the top side.  1" of grout under the foot would be sufficient.  Check with local building codes for rod spacing.  Some places it's like 3 9/16" or some retarded distance to meet code.
Reply:^^-- Take some solid 1/4" sheets, cut them to fit the stairs, weld on some end and support rails, and then weld a handrail on top so the kiddies have something to bang their little heads against .... Yeah, it'll be heavy, but at least there won't be a danger to the kids ......
Reply:Thanks guys these replies are pretty helpful.  I would like to clarify a few things though.#1. I am planning on using a 2"o.d. tube with 1/4" or compariable wall thickness for the entire project#2.I recommended to the home owner that we use maybe 3/8-1/2" plate for the base with a simple three pass fillet weld to secure the tubing to the plate, the plate would have (4) 3/8" holes drilled in it corresponding to to (4) 3/8" holes hammer drilled into the concrete. complete with grout of course.I am going to make drawing either on a piece of plywood or garage floor and try and lay it out before hand.  I plan on using only two rails running parallel to the stairs itself ( a top"hand rail", and a second "mid rail" each separated by 12" in between.  Keep the comments coming though. Thanks.
Reply:Material seems awfully heavy, unless that is what you have on hand.  14-11g wall works, for tubing also 1/8-3/16" would work for plates.good luck
Reply:The last rail I did was 14g with 1/4" mounting plates and uprights every 5-6ft depending on what worked out nicely.Have you looked into building codes?  Some places have codes that determine how high the top and mid rail must be, as well as how far the rail must overhang the last step.How big are these going to be?  If it is the typical three step with landing then 14g would be plenty.  Will have 1/4-1/2" deflection at the top if you really lean on it, but otherwise very stable.Be wary of the concrete.  When I built the rails, I left all the uprights a couple inches long and then took a pipe cutter with me and trimed to fit on site .  The concrete walkway and steps were sloped and had waves so my first perfect rail didn't fit worth a **** and had to be redone.