Identifying cast material

admin

Long story short:I have a Chrysler 8.25 rear out my Jeep That I will be welding on, incl the cast center section.Some Ford rear have "Cast steel" centers and can be welded easily with MIG,, reading online it "appears" the ford 8.8 is a cast steel center (It was on the net, it's gotta be true)"cast Iron" is much more difficult and requires different procedures and filler.So, I have my Chrysler 8.25 in the shop,, and a Ford 8.8 in the scrap pile.In all my reading there is no mention of the make up of the Chrysler cast material.I did a spark test and drill test on each, but no definitive results to my untrained eyes.Below are the pics from the test on the ford 8.8 and the chysler 8.25, they appear to be simular.Can anyone ID the type of cast I am dealing with on the Chrysler?Or where to send a sample for definitive testing?Chrysler center sectionChrysler drilling chips from center sectionSparks from mild steel tubesSparks from Ford 8.8 center sectionFord 8.8 drilling chips from center section
Reply:I usually go by the chips. Yours are some type of steel, not cast iron. I would use about a 200-250 degree preheat and weld them. Try to not cool it too fast and should be good .
Reply:The Chrysler part looks to be steel....you get sparks starting right at the grinder and you got some long, corkscrew chips.  The Ford part looks more like ductile iron, often called nodular iron...sparks start farther out, but not as far out as cast iron and you get some small chips mixed with a few small corkscrew chips.  Ford used nodular iron on many 9" differentials, and marked them with an N on the casting if my memory is correct.Check out my bench vise website:  http://mivise.comMiller Syncrowave 250DXMillermatic 350P with XR AlumaProMiller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3Hobart Champion EliteEverlast PowerTig 210EXT
Reply:Thanks for the reply's. That is what I was thinking (Hoping) it was cast steel.I put the picture of sparks from the mild steel tubes to compare too. The mild steel def has longer/whiter sparks with less bursts. I only found 1 video online that was supossed to be castiron vs cast steel tests,, but he used mild steel plate as "Cast steel" in his test,, so I could never see the results of REAL cast steel to compare what I got. So no need for N55 or N99 rod and the TIG,, Preheat 200 deg and standard MIG with .035 wire? Wrap it in my fiberglass blanket after.Once again,Many Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlackdaddyThanks for the reply's. That is what I was thinking (Hoping) it was cast steel.I put the picture of sparks from the mild steel tubes to compare too. The mild steel def has longer/whiter sparks with less bursts. I only found 1 video online that was supossed to be castiron vs cast steel tests,, but he used mild steel plate as "Cast steel" in his test,, so I could never see the results of REAL cast steel to compare what I got. So no need for N55 or N99 rod and the TIG,, Preheat 200 deg and standard MIG with .035 wire? Wrap it in my fiberglass blanket after.Once again,Many Thanks.
Reply:I would use 312 on those. TIG.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:If it's possible, you could try and make a small cut on them with a cutting torch. Cast iron won't cut with a cutting torch, it will just melt.
Reply:I'd be quite surprised if that axle housing was cast steel. To me your spark test looks like iron most likely ductile. And yes some grades of ductile will give you curly chips. Welder Dave has an idea there try a cutting torch (not plasma) on it. What do your welds on it need to hold? This is important. This guy says cast iron but he may not know more than me. https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=75.0Call Chrysler or Dana and see if you can get someone who might actually know to tell you what they made it out of. I gather the tube are pressed in and held by a plug weld but that's not the same as not being able to do a post weld heat treat or expecting the weld to hold some severe service. Lotsa luck.---Meltedmetal
Reply:Welding on a truss for added rigidity. Traditional leaf spring perches are welded to the tubes. So no bus loads of school children will die if the weld fails.Question about the cutting torch test. He says it won't cut, just melt? A cutting torch melts the metal and the blast of oxygen blows the molten stuff away. So I am confused how it would melt, but not cut? Originally Posted by MeltedmetalI'd be quite surprised if that axle housing was cast steel. To me your spark test looks like iron most likely ductile. And yes some grades of ductile will give you curly chips. Welder Dave has an idea there try a cutting torch (not plasma) on it. What do your welds on it need to hold? This is important. This guy says cast iron but he may not know more than me. https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=75.0Call Chrysler or Dana and see if you can get someone who might actually know to tell you what they made it out of. I gather the tube are pressed in and held by a plug weld but that's not the same as not being able to do a post weld heat treat or expecting the weld to hold some severe service. Lotsa luck.
Reply:I have found most "car guys" call any ferrous cast metal -- "cast iron" Originally Posted by MeltedmetalI'd be quite surprised if that axle housing was cast steel. To me your spark test looks like iron most likely ductile. And yes some grades of ductile will give you curly chips. Welder Dave has an idea there try a cutting torch (not plasma) on it. What do your welds on it need to hold? This is important. This guy says cast iron but he may not know more than me. https://www.dippy.org/forum2/index.php?topic=75.0Call Chrysler or Dana and see if you can get someone who might actually know to tell you what they made it out of. I gather the tube are pressed in and held by a plug weld but that's not the same as not being able to do a post weld heat treat or expecting the weld to hold some severe service. Lotsa luck.
Reply:I'm thinking it's gonna be pretty self-evident when you try to weld on it, whether it's cast steel or cast iron. If it welds fairly easy -- cast steel. If not -- cast iron.I'm far from an expert, but I'd be damn surprised if it was cast iron.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlackdaddyWelding on a truss for added rigidity. Traditional leaf spring perches are welded to the tubes. So no bus loads of school children will die if the weld fails.Question about the cutting torch test. He says it won't cut, just melt? A cutting torch melts the metal and the blast of oxygen blows the molten stuff away. So I am confused how it would melt, but not cut?
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI'm thinking it's gonna be pretty self-evident when you try to weld on it, whether it's cast steel or cast iron. If it welds fairly easy -- cast steel. If not -- cast iron.I'm far from an expert, but I'd be damn surprised if it was cast iron.
Reply:Exactly!!! Sold welding supplies 21 years. This has been an issue, that has darkened my doorway, and e-mail many times over the decades. Asking a guy at a welding supply front counter what to weld it with? That is asking for trouble, costly trouble. None the less, I was one of the many fools that dove into the water, without dipping my toe in first. The only way to know, if the manufacturer can't tell you is a 1/2 million $ Spectral Analysis machine. Most manufacturers of cast parts, would own one. I sold them UHP Argon. (ultra high purity, 99.998%) They used it as an atmosphere for the test. You would end up with a computer generated break down of all the components in the casting. What do you do out in the field? I've seen a lot of parts destroyed, by using the wrong product. Many times I was blamed for selling the wrong stuff. I took the, "you tell me what you want." stance. Never heard a complaint after that. Go figure, LOL.Eric Sam I am.
Reply:These guys built a truss kit for the 8.25 and it looks like they avoid welding to the center housing except at the outboard flanges of the housing with short welds. This axle truss stuff seems to be a popular thing to do. Loads of kits out there. As you probably have surmised I'm not into off=road. Have fun.https://nextventuremotorsports.com/c...ler-8-25-truss---Meltedmetal
Reply:Originally Posted by MeltedmetalIf you can find some cast iron,and have a torch give it a whirl. This is a quote from the all-knowing internet. Cast iron(particularly gray iron resists oxidation much better than steel, it is part of why cast iron grates in wood stoves outlast steel counterparts.) " Oxy-fuel cutting is a chemical reaction between pure oxygen and steel to form iron oxide. It can be described as rapid, controlled rusting."The truss sounds interesting. I can think of a few ways to truss the diff without welding to the casting, but they'll never say I did it quickly. If your so inclined post a pic when you get it done.
Reply:If I remember correctly there was an oxy/acet torch available to cut cast iron and maybe stainless. I never saw one but I think they injected iron powder into the flame?I would have thought plasma would make this obsolete.https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...ironferno.aspx---Meltedmetal
Reply:I did a test weld today on the cast center section of the 2003 Chrysler 8.25 center section.I welded a 3/8" mild steel tab on.preheated cast to 220 deg Fwelded with MIG at ~200 amps, .035 Lincoln L-56 wire.I post heated for about 20 seconds then trew a fiberglass blanket over it for 45 min to cool.I used a 3# hand maul to beat on the tab, it bent over and ripped the mild steel tab, weld held in the cast fine.
Reply:
Reply:I didn't think you would have any issues with it. Should be good if you repeat the process.
Reply:Yeah I am happy with the results.While I am pretty good with the MIG, I am a novice with TIG, I have a Lincoln Precision TIG 225 in the shop.Problem I run into is with MIG, If I have an arc and building puddle, it is adding filler.My thought is with TIG I could build the puddle on the cast and "lap" up onto the mild steel and add filler as needed.I will be welding 1/4" mild steel truss to the cast, my fear is with the MIG the heat needed to melt the cast, will blow out the 1/4 steel. Originally Posted by M J DI didn't think you would have any issues with it. Should be good if you repeat the process.
Reply:I would suggest practicing welding some 1/4" to 3/4" or so. Focus your arc on the 3)4" and wash into the 1/4". It's probably actually easier to do with a slight uphill travel.
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DI would suggest practicing welding some 1/4" to 3/4" or so. Focus your arc on the 3)4" and wash into the 1/4". It's probably actually easier to do with a slight uphill travel.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlackdaddyMIG or TIG ?
Reply:Weld in from each end so you don't leave a crater on the end for a crack to form like is showing in your Mig test weld where the piece broke off.Did you end up doing a truss?Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk