Sub-Arc

admin

Okay.. who in here is the master at SAW? I am quoting a project that I can't do without it but I have no experience in it. Please help if you can! Thank you for your responses.
Reply:I was once a master at submerging the tungsten, does that count?Sorry, wish I knew someone to help you.
Reply:What does Saw mean?  We got a vid of this killer saw...http://media.damagedreality.com/V8ChainSaw.aviI believe you could say this is the master Saw.You mean SMAW?? maybe?Well, you need do a few welds on some material, post em up here and let us critique.  You need to pick the appropriate electrode, amps, weave for the orientation and material you are welding.  It all starts with the machine, then the material, then you choose the electrode.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:submerged arc welding?
Reply:Oh, duh, yep...  Submerged arc.  Please disregaurd previous ramble...Last edited by Doolittle; 03-29-2007 at 05:13 PM.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Someone at one of my classes explained how it is all done...(No its not underwater..Thats what I thought also)It may have been Lorenzo..But I'm not sure..Sounds way cool..I'd like to see it one day.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:SAW, Submerged Arc Welding.Like MIG (GMAW Gas Metal Arc Welding) except wire is bigger, like 1/8" diameter, and the arc is submerged beneath a granular flux which acts to protect the pool and control weld chemistry.  Common in large equipment manufacturing, bridge building, ship building, the big stuff.Here's a video:Last edited by pulser; 03-29-2007 at 05:29 PM.
Reply:Now thats cool.. Basically a 1/8" mig under powder flux..Cool beans!!I love the 2 scrape and bye bye flux.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:We have a sub arc machine at my shop. I'll see if I can dig up a pick...._________________Chris
Reply:Originally Posted by lorenzoWe have a sub arc machine at my shop. I'll see if I can dig up a pick....
Reply:I don't know that I would consider myself a master at sub-arc but I have done a bit of it. I usually set it up for heavy or repeatative work.
Reply:If you are going to get into these problems on a regular basis, pick up a copy of the AWS welders hanbook, vol 2. (I don't remember if subarc is part I or part II offhand) Good intro, good analysis of the economics with all of the formulas, and references galore. Not real cheap, but the first time it makes you $100 more on a job, or keeps you from eating the $100 on a bad bid (which isn't much money at all when problems crop up) it's paid for.
Reply:I recently saw a show on steel and welding on one of the science or history channels. They had several demonstrations of Submerged Arc  Welding for making large "I"-beams for bridges. The material was 2" plate steel. The beams were about 40' long and 2' high with what looked like about 8" wide tops and bottoms. I think that the welding machine was a large wire-fed Lincoln, at least it was red.....and it crawled along dragging a large hose which provided the granular flux material to shield the arc. The wire was very big! The welds were very big fillets on the 2" plate and they were just beautiful.I've never seen SAW being done before but I can't imagine doing a beam that size any other way.Last edited by gnm109; 03-30-2007 at 10:50 PM.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I really thought I replied to this the other day...must be getting old. I'm no expert on sub-arc but I've done my share. Under the right conditions the slag will peel itself off the weld but the old POS we have at work doesn't do that.HERE'S a link to some pics. Nevermind the pontoon junk.We use two lincoln power supplies and an old Lincoln wire-feeder. It feeds two 60lb spools of 1/8" wire at the same time. The wire arcs about 1/2" apart. The pics show two pieces of 6x6x3/4" angle welded together to form a box or tube. We use 1/16" metal-core wire in spray transfer to run a root pass and to cap off about 6" of each end. Then, we set the tube into position and run the sub-arc. I would have to check the machine when I go back to work but I think it runs about 900 amps. It's been a while since I used it. The flux feels like a course sand and has to be continuously fed into the hopper on this machine but most newer ones are automatic, I'm sure. There are adjustment knobs to move the tips up and down and back and forth to keep up with the expanding metal.Always looking for another old VW, especially in the southeast.
Reply:I saw a demonstration of sub arc up close and I was awestruck. I've welded with 3/16" rods before and spray trasfer on big plate at 30volts, but this was beyond all that. The company was testing a procedure for the US military ship building plant. Material was 1.25" plate butt welded with a gap and full penetration in one pass. Wire was 5/16", amperage was 1200 and the freakin weld crater it produced was about 8" long. Quiet, no uv rays and no smoke. Fully automatic. Blew my mind. The next time I used my Millermatic 210, I felt like a kid playing with a toy welder. Welder envy.Man invented metal, he can do whatever he wants with it.KMAC
Reply:Let's see, there are about 8 sub-arc machines at work.  It's heavy stuff.  The pipe lays in motorized rollers and spins and what ever speed the welder wants.  The root is either TIG'd or FCAW, depending on what the WPS says.  the flux is fed into an over head hopper, like purple sand, lincoln 880 in many cases, but there are lots that we use.  Sometimes it's heated, sometimes not.  The wire is anywhere from 1/16" to 1/8" (atleast that's the biggest I've seen).  The power sources are Lincoln dinosaurs.  Alot of them are a grey color.  900 amps or more.  The line is fed up a boom hanging over the pipe through the cup and contact tip just behind the outlet for the flux.  Welder sets his wire speed, heat, flux flow, and pipe speed, and then he's real board for a while.  All I see them do is knock big hunks of flux off with something.  The beads are about 3/4" to 1" wide or so.  They weld anything from say 8" std wall carbon to 40" OD 4" wall P-91 chrome.  They can also set the boom to travel in a straight line to weld plate if needed.  It's a very interesting setup.  But, once you get it set up, very boring to run.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigcountry1009The power sources are Lincoln dinosaurs....  Alot of them are a grey color.  900 amps or more....    All I see them do is knock big hunks of flux off with something....    But, once you get it set up, very boring to run.
Reply:Simply amazing stuff. And here we thought a synchrowave 350 used a lot of electricity- childs play!!! Thank you for the video and info guys.
Reply:He he, yeah.  Most of the guys running the sub-arcs are close to retirement age.  When something does go wrong, you can tell they really really don't like it.  Something cut into their nap time.  Alot of their flux will just fall off in big ribbons.  I think they chip at it sometimes just to have something to do.  We have one old guy that makes real pretty welds, but he will grind his last filler pass flush, then he forgets where the gap was, so he puts this huge cap on it to make sure he got it covered.  He's been fussed at more than a few times about it.
Reply:All good things fella's... Thanks!