Dimes on Aluminum?

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I'm new to Tigging with my Dynasty 200.  Steel is all good.  Having a lot of fun but have not been able to get the stack of dimes effect when doing aluminum.  The weld is good.  Puddle control is good.  Puddle, filler, move, puddle, filler move, etc.  I get a small ripple but nothing that looks like I want.  I tried the method Zap uses for his "stitch" weld.  He gets those nice looking dimes.  If I had any ripples on the first pass, they are completely smoothed out when covering it with a weave on the second pass.  It's basically a nice smooth weld.  It's a sound weld but not what I want.    I'm just doing coupons right now on aluminum trying to learn.  I use ER4043 rod and Lanthaniated tungsten.  Heat is adjusted for the puddle.  Can anyone give me any tips??  Dennis
Reply:Move the tungsten over a greater distance between adding filler.  That has the single greatest impact on the appearance of aluminum TIG.  Typically you will "dab, step over, dab step over."  Try changing this to a "dab, step step, dab, step step".  Just experiment until you find what you want.  If I'm doing some cosmetic welding for someone (oil catch cans, valve covers, etc), I'll usually run three beads on scrap with different spacing, and let them pick which they prefer.Also, changing filler size has a great impact also.  The larger you go in filler, the more pronounced your dimes will be.  It's not the right way to do it, but you can sure make people ooh and ah by stepping up to a 3/32 or 1/8 filler as opposed to a 1/16th.
Reply:The 4043 is also a softer rod and it will do that. Try a 5356 series rod and your indents will be more pronounced.edit: Although, be aware, if you stick with the 4043 and need to send the aluminum out for annodizing after welding the annodize will not stick to 4043, the 5356 must be used.Last edited by MicroZone; 04-18-2007 at 12:26 PM.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Its all practice practice practice.. If it was easy everyone would be doing it!  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoneypitI'm new to Tigging with my Dynasty 200.  Steel is all good.  Having a lot of fun but have not been able to get the stack of dimes effect when doing aluminum.  The weld is good.  Puddle control is good.  Puddle, filler, move, puddle, filler move, etc.  I get a small ripple but nothing that looks like I want.  I tried the method Zap uses for his "stitch" weld.  He gets those nice looking dimes.  If I had any ripples on the first pass, they are completely smoothed out when covering it with a weave on the second pass.  It's basically a nice smooth weld.  It's a sound weld but not what I want.    I'm just doing coupons right now on aluminum trying to learn.  I use ER4043 rod and Lanthaniated tungsten.  Heat is adjusted for the puddle.  Can anyone give me any tips??  Dennis
Reply:It comes with time.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThe 4043 is also a softer rod and it will do that. Try a 5356 series rod and your indents will be more pronounced.edit: Although, be aware, if you stick with the 4043 and need to send the aluminum out for annodizing after welding the annodize will not stick to 4043, the 5356 must be used.
Reply:Thanks for the explanation Paul. I just tell most it doesn't work, otherwise you tell them it will then they go do it and come back and say it looks bad. In turn you get blamed.  I just love some customers.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Adjusting the distance of moving the tungsten has made the largest difference.  I had hesitated to do this before as small movements afforded me more control of my edges and making sure everything was properly burned.  I ran some tests and this will give me more pronounced beads for when I want to do that.  I'll put in more seat time to get comfortable with the quality of doing it this way.  I also like the idea of being able to do multiple styles of welds.Paul,  I think I get better results with a somewhat higher frequency.  Say 100-120.  It makes a smaller deeper puddle and I "think" sharper edges on the beads.  I'll have to get some 5356 to try but don't like it's working temperature limitation.  150 degrees seems too low.  Some summers down here in SoCal it feels like that's the ambient temp!!  Only problem I'm having playing with the coupons is thying to stay ahead of the heat toward the end of the piece.  Weld just turns into a big flow an inch from the end no matter how much heat I let up on.  More seat time!Dennis
Reply:Towards the end of the plate, you can also start adding filler more rapidly/greater volume per dab.  This will pull some of the heat out of the joint, and help to fill the crater.  Just remember to ease off the pedal to prevent dimples/craters.
Reply:If it needs to be pretty, I use a simple process.  Two circles and a dip.  Once the material begins to flow and you add the first dip, make two small circles over the puddle, then dip.  The second circle flattens out the puddle and the dimes begin to appear.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoneypitAdjusting the distance of moving the tungsten has made the largest difference.  I had hesitated to do this before as small movements afforded me more control of my edges and making sure everything was properly burned.  I ran some tests and this will give me more pronounced beads for when I want to do that.  I'll put in more seat time to get comfortable with the quality of doing it this way.  I also like the idea of being able to do multiple styles of welds.Paul,  I think I get better results with a somewhat higher frequency.  Say 100-120.  It makes a smaller deeper puddle and I "think" sharper edges on the beads.  I'll have to get some 5356 to try but don't like it's working temperature limitation.  150 degrees seems too low.  Some summers down here in SoCal it feels like that's the ambient temp!!  Only problem I'm having playing with the coupons is thying to stay ahead of the heat toward the end of the piece.  Weld just turns into a big flow an inch from the end no matter how much heat I let up on.  More seat time!Dennis
Reply:Just a quick one at Zap, how are people suppose to learn/ practice if no one will tell them the method?.Doing the ripples with MIG is fun.. just with the tig add the filler in larger dose at a time and then move forward abit more than you usually would then add another bit... I am no expert but thats how I do it.
Reply:Originally Posted by matJust a quick one at Zap, how are people suppose to learn/ practice if no one will tell them the method?.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabWelding is a hands on learning experience. We can all tell each other how to weld 'till we're blue in the face but until you spend some time behind the torch, it won't do any good. What works for me, you, or zap may not be a method that someone else is comfortable with. Each weldor has to learn his/her own technique which is what gives each one their own "signature".Think about this way; If just telling someone how to do something was enough, then couldn't/wouldn't we all be professional athletes?Welding is just like learning how to swing a bat or throw a football. It's all practice and muscle memory. The more you do it and learn a method that works for you, the easier it is to get repeatable results.- Paul
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeTrue, but no point in practicing a technique if you haven't at least been told the proper way to do it.I was teaching a fellow classmate a while back how to change the look of the beads just by changing the spacing of dabs.  Top right was dabbing after very short movement, middle top was moving over 2 steps instead of one, bottom was standard over one, dab, over one, dab.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou missed my point. You said you were SHOWING your friend technique. Not telling.Showing somebody is one of the best things to do. Telling somebody is completely different. It leaves it open to personal interpretation.
Reply:I've tried both..Showing is easier by far..A couple of students I had actually tried what I had typed to them..But with limited results..20 Min with me looking thru their mask and they "get" it now..Telling is one thing sure..But showing is the best hands down..So kiddies it really boils down to seat time..Try to rember what don't work and don't do it anymore..try something else..Eventually YOU WILL figure it out on your own.. ...zap!Last edited by zapster; 04-20-2007 at 05:16 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Let me comment please!!  I'm a good O/A welder in general. 35 years on and off.  It took me all of about 10 seconds to run my first weld using TIG.  Not because of my incredible skill level  but just because of the basic similarity between the 2 methods.  I don't think it's possible for me to be as good as some of the awesome stuff I've seen you guys do on here as my hands are not steady enough to weld good unless I'm all braced.  While I understand and agree with the advice to spend time at the weldor I really appreciate all the tips that people have given me.  Now I can sit down and try these out and figure out which ones work for me and which ones don't.  Please don't be hard on the guys who give advise.  When I was learning how to weld in high school one of the problems I had was that there was no one that could show me or give me any advise as I was already past them.  Not hard to do in the school I was in.  Doesn't mean I was that good.  It means I was and felt limited.  In college I took a welding class and ended up showing the instructor how to use a cutting torch.   Now the internet is here.  I will gladly soak up all the ZAPSTER videos as well as written techniques so I can to try and move forward with this as a hobby.Dennis
Reply:Originally Posted by Moneypit  While I understand and agree with the advice to spend time at the weldor I really appreciate all the tips that people have given me.  Now I can sit down and try these out and figure out which ones work for me and which ones don't.    Please don't be hard on the guys who give advise.  Dennis