Help with 3G 7018

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I am tying to pass the verticle up test with 5/32 7018.  Plates are 4" X 6" 3/8" with a 22 degree bevel, 1/4" backer.  For those who have taken this test, do you whip the root?  I get about 2/3 of the way to the top and things get too hot so I loose control of the puddle and have a nice mess.   I can do it at 120 amps, but I think this ins't enough to float out any slag.  Book Sez 150.  Fat chance for me to to it.Recomendations and YOUR settings and tenique would be hepful.  I run about 2 attempts per day.  I am grinding the bevel on the plates, so that is all I care to do in a day.  I also have real paying work to do.Invertec V350, electrode +   120 amps arc force 0 to +8.  I point the rod directly into the groove. NO drag angle.Test is $150.00.  I am not going to take it till I can run a few sucessfully in a row.  I had 20' fo 3/8 X 6 plate.DavidLast edited by David R; 04-08-2007 at 10:18 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:5/32" 7018??Myself..I'd be running roughly 200 amps..Never go by what the "book" says.. Go by what works.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:5/32 seems a bit much on 3/8 plate. I don't know if the test allows it or not, but I'd be doing that with 1/8, or even 3/32. You need to carry ALOT of heat like Zap said on 5/32. Curious to see how this turns out.
Reply:I agree this is a tough procedure calling for the 5/32".  Is there a gap requirement?  A 22 degree bevel doesn't give much access.  Not having done one, I think I'd set up with a 1/2" gap if allowed and try a small weave.  Turn your heat down to the lowest point you can still get clean starts.  You can usually control your heat a little better by twisting your stinger so that at the end of each weave you are aiming at the bevel as compared to straight on at the backing plate.  This will momentarily concentrate your heat on the 3/8" plate and give the backer more time to cool.  Good luck.
Reply:OK, after chatting with Lorenzo, I think I found parts of my problem.  I was using 1/8 or 5/32 gap.  1/4" is the max allowed in this test.  It does not HAVE to be 5/32 rod, but the CWI recomended it.  I will try it with 1/8 rod and I will try the 1/4 " gap with the 5/32 rod.  I know I can do this, its just something I keep doing wrong evry time.  I have probably burned up 20 sets of plates.  Maybe more.  I have been trying this for a few months.  First with my Ranger 250 and now its easier because the invertec is in the shop and I don't have to drag out cables and fire up the ranger.   After quite a few attempts, I tried it with .045 wire and C02.  I ran 3 sets of plates and took the test.  Passed no sweat.  Most of the time I run the ranger and the .045 wire.  When its windy out, I need to use 7018.  Lately I have been using NR-233 self shielding wire.  This stuff runs HOT and works great.  Cost is tripple of bare wire and double that of rod.SO, tomorrow I will run a few more plates and let you guys know what went on.  Pics even if they are ugly.Thanks a bunchI KNOW I can do this.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:i dont  know if  the tests  have  changed or not since i did my first one (years  ago) but  i think i remember for  CWB (canada) it  was  5/32 on  flat and horizontal and  1/8 on vertical and overheadthe gap on vert  was  about 3/8 with  the  1/4 inch  backer, one  plate  was  beveled and one  was  90 degrees..i always  ran a  straight  stringer up the  square  side and  then i would  weave up the  beveled  sidethen  after  that  weave it till it  was full
Reply:Sounds like a different test from CWB but if you want to compare it, here is some info.  The vertical position allows a 1/2" gap with 1/8" rods.http://www.grbwelding.com/images/CWBTest.pdf
Reply:Thanks oldSparks, not the same,but some hints.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The bevel angle sounds steep so angling your rod at each side of the weave would be wise.  Don't go crazy with heat because you have to maintain control of your puddle.  With 5/32 and only 3/8 thickness one of your biggest problems will be heat build up.  By the time you have travelled up a couple of inches the plate will have heated up and the puddle will start to grow on you.  Don't whip or you will get porosity.  It is not like a cellulose rod.  I would be inclined to practice my stop starts until they are perfect.  At that point I would weld only three or four inches before stopping and letting things cool down.  Possibly alternate between two or even three practice pieces.   Test pieces are not like reality because the heat sink effect is very limited.
Reply:Well, I did it today.  Been trying to get this right for months.  I tried 1/4" spacing with the 5/32 rod.  Then I gave it shot with 1/8" rod.  Much easier to control.  135 amps, I blew through the backer at about 2/3 of the way up.  Went to 125 amps and almost made it to the top. 115 amps and I made the whole pass, but the weld at the top was bigger than at the bottom.  I finally did a succesful root pass at 110 amps with a 5/32 gap and 1/8" rod.  Second and third pass were flawless.  I had to stop (ran outa rod) twice on the final pass.  I marked the plate. You can see it in the weld, but I don't think I got any slag in the interruption.  You guys are a lot of help.  I didn't make much money today because I spent from 8 till noon trying to get this right.  I took a bunch of pics, but forgot the camera at work.   sorry, pics tomorrow.All I have to do now is run the same thing 4 or 5 more times then take the real test.  I did it!  I did it!     Thank you everyone Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:good luck man and keep practicing
Reply:Here ya go, 2 of the root pass and one of the finished product. Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Nice getting something done correctly Good job!Maybe you'll be a welder some day??  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster Maybe you'll be a welder some day??...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by David RWhen I grow up.ThanksDavid
Reply:No Zap, I didn't take it the wrong way. Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.  My children are lucky, they have a kid for a dad.David  Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:From one kid to another.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I finally tried to do the test with 3/32.  5 Lbs from Tractor supply.  First I tried it on some I already had worked on.  Then on fresh cupons with 75 amps.  Went right up the cupons.  The rest of the passes (4) were easier.  1/8" I tried from 90 to 130 amps, just couldn't do it.  I called the CWI and he said it would be fine to take the test with 3/32.  The state test mandates it.Thanks for the help and support.David Attached ImagesReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:i take it your tryin to take the NYS DOT test.  i ran mine about 145 with 5/32 just make sure on your root and next pass u take your time let it wash really good walk right up the edges of the bevel to keep slag from traping.  after first few passes its really no problem.  this is what i did and just wait for the results.  should be a while just took it last week.
Reply:Just for reference, almost every welder I've used that has had an arc force control on it, worked best with it somewhat on the low side, i.e 1.5-3 on a scale of 1-10.  You may find you get a lot more undercut with it turned up too high.Also, you may want to bump your amps up some, at least on the cap pass.  It looks a little on the cold side, you want the puddle nice and fluid when you carry it across, so it just starts to taper off as you move from side to side.  Helps tighten up the weave.
Reply:Infamousjer,   From Middleport Eh?  I drive by there every day going to work in Lockport.  I am going to turn the heat up, I ran out of plates and backers.  I "got it" now, and just need to run a few more before I take the test.  Switching from lincoln rod and using the 3/32 both made the difference.  I have been working on this since december.  One day I  tried it with the mig and .045 wire.   I ran 3 plates and took the test.  Passed.  Now its back to passing with 7018.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:david r where u work at? and are they hiring?  Just graduating college from alfred state welding program.  lookin for work. also on the DOT test u can only run 5/32 from root to face.  not sure if that was what u were refering too.
Reply:i actually just passed a test like this( i actually asked about it on here ) i used 7018 3/32 all the way out , i skipped the 6010 cause you have a backing plate which in my eyes made the 6010 worthless in there , i cant remember the amps since i increased and decreased based on the pass mine was 3/8 with a backing strip and vertical and horizontal just relax when you take it , nice and loose , and i agree 5/32 is way to big , i actaully thought 1/8 was way to big myself , i four passed mine and another guy who was taking it at the same time stringered the whole thing and with 3/32 took him 15 passes , but he ground every full across pass flat im actaully moving on to the next one and that is 6g
Reply:Originally Posted by infamousjerdavid r where u work at? and are they hiring?  Just graduating college from alfred state welding program.  lookin for work. also on the DOT test u can only run 5/32 from root to face.  not sure if that was what u were refering too.
Reply:still waitiing to hear back.  hoping so but its a hard test.