How to get my TIG welds shiny

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I have been TIG'ing for a bit now but for some reason my welds don't come out shiny at all. Mostly dull.This is a pic on cast aluminum, but even when I do thin aluminum piping, I don't get shiny welds.When I do 1/16 aluminum pipes, I have my amperage set at around 65 max and run about 20psi of argon in a #4 cup.Suggestions?
Reply:Thats because you are welding a casting rather than billett...Castings allways come out like that..Its just the way it is... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThats because you are welding a casting rather than billett...Castings allways come out like that..Its just the way it is... ...zap!
Reply:Shielding?Do you have the same problem on stainless steel?  SS will show up a shielding problem real quick.  Since the hot completed weld may discolor as it comes out from under the shielding, try a stationary (spot) weld on SS and check the color.Check the entire gas system for leaks, every connection, even the regulator/flow meter.  Plug the torch, pressurize the system, apply bubble solution (windex works).Tried a gas lens, larger cup size?
Reply:Originally Posted by UnderwhereWhat about polished aluminum piping.When I weld that, it doesn't come out shiny either.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterIt is quite possible that your just not getting the aluminum clean enough before starting..Check out this thread..And Look close at the pics..http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=9523Don't think that just because it's "shiney" to start with makes it clean.. ...zap!
Reply:TMI.  Seriously, are you trying to weld while on the pot?  I imagine the gas coverage not an issue then! Give it your best bead...Sorry, but I couldnt help myself.ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:I imagine the gas coverage not an issue then!
Reply:Originally Posted by UnderwhereI'm going to go take a dump
Reply:My name is Underwhere and I take dumps Here is the thing I welded. I believe it is stainless because it's some sort of milk carton container.I was on DC welding at 70 amps max with 8 seconds post-flow. 100% argon set at 22psi on a cup size of 5 with a 2% lanthanated tip that I had just sharpened and cleaned with acetone.I prepped by using a wire brush lightly, then some 100 grit aluminum oxide sandpaper and then cleaned the surface with acetone before welding.I started on the right hand side using 308Halfway through I switched to 309 to see if it would make any sort of difference.It's NOT SHINY damnit.Last edited by Underwhere; 03-06-2007 at 07:56 PM.
Reply:The shielding of this weld looks like crap!Some ideas:- Flow too high creating turbulence and air contamination.- Leaks in gas delivery system allowing air contamination.  Yes Ripley, "believe it or not", an outward leak from a pressurized system can actually allow air to enter the system.  Got an "O"-ring on the back cap?Got a teflon insulator between the cup and the torch?  Got a gas lens yet?-Torch too far away, electrode stickout too long, torch angled too much?-Bad gas not "pure" Argon, wrong gas MIG mix.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserThe shielding of this weld looks like crap!Some ideas:- Flow too high creating turbulence and air contamination.- Leaks in gas delivery system allowing air contamination.  Yes Ripley, "believe it or not", an outward leak from a pressurized system can actually allow air to enter the system.  Got an "O"-ring on the back cap?Got a teflon insulator between the cup and the torch?  Got a gas lens yet?-Torch too far away, electrode stickout too long, torch angled too much?-Bad gas not "pure" Argon, wrong gas MIG mix.
Reply:Does the filler rod make a difference?What if the thing I was welding wasn't stainless?I used 308 and tried 309 and neither one looked any good.
Reply:First - stop using sand paper to clean your weldment. Brush and acentone only on  SS. Second - turn your gas down to between 12 and 15. You don't need that much gas. Third - hold your wire closer to your material. Your welds are inconsistant because your wire is moving all over. You get a more precise dip if you hold it closer to your arc. Make sure your work clamp is as close to your weld area as possible. I don't see it in any of the above pics. Try that and let us know.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:From the photo it looks as though your arc must be HUGE!  Unless your cup is something like 2-2.5" long, but what do I know!  Are you finding that you have to grind your tungsten much?ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:Underwhere, dude!Do you have a flow meter, or are you just running straight out of a reguator at 20 psig?????  In your first post you say 20 psi Argon, and I think to myself, he must have some kind of cheapo fixed orifice "flow meter" that adusts flow via pressure.Now in your photo I see what looks like a simple gas pressure regulator on the bottle, can't tell if it includes an orifice for use a "flow meter".You need a flow meter if you don't have one.  Get the type with a floating ball that can be attached to your current regulator.If you have a flow meter, or when you get one, experiment with the flow, you don't need more than 15 cfh, probably less.
Reply:Originally Posted by DirtyLittleSecretFrom the photo it looks as though your arc must be HUGE!  Unless your cup is something like 2-2.5" long, but what do I know!  Are you finding that you have to grind your tungsten much?
Reply:Change that #5 cup to a #7 or #8.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:do they make a flow meter that will attach to the regular, regulator, or do you have to buy the whole hookup right to the tank. Like in inline after the secondary meter in the setup shown in the picture? thanks
Reply:caosevida,yep exactly right, you can add the flow meter to your pressure regulator.Did you grow the hops?  Thats making me thirsty.
Reply:How often do ya have to use the seatbelt on that chair?
Reply:Originally Posted by jwrightHow often do ya have to use the seatbelt on that chair?
Reply:Nice working Seat!My Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:It really looks to me like the stuff isn't clean enough..(stainless)You need to clean both sides because the "crap" is drawing to the heat and settles on the top of the weld..Yes it does.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:i dont know if anyone mentioned it, but i had the same probalem with the alum and stainless dull. i figure out it was all in my heat/speed relation. good heat comes out shiny (or goldish/straw colored). also leave the torch against the peice your working on so the gas flow can cool the fresh weld. i hope you didnt spray that weld with water right after you did that pass.So yeah, the seat is out of a volkswagen jetta and I welded legs on to it The pictures I took is of me just starting the weld. I have pretty good hand control with the torch so my tungsten is usually extremely close to the weldment ...though i'm not positive that's a good thing.I usually hold my filler rod much closer, but at the time the picture was taken I was sliding the filler through my fingers to get it closer. I agree there's no way to hold it that far.The things I will try:Turn down the gas. (yes, there is a very simplistic regulator  )What does cup size do? I usually use a #6 but i switched to 5 simply because I stopped by a shop that does a lot of aluminun and noticed they had a very tiny cup on their torch.I never thought about cleaning both sides of the metal but it make sense that if any comes through because it's molten it'll contaiminate the top. And NO sandpaper. Done. I hate sanding anyway.I will let you guys know. Thanks!
Reply:I don't get the logic of why a smaller cup would give better shielding.
Reply:Maybe keep the gas focal?  I'd imagine an 8 cup would allow more turbulance than a 5, but would it make any dig difference in a situation like this?Havent the foggiest as Im just using my cup 6 (but have about 8 cups).ThermalArc 185MillerMatic 180 w/ AutosetVictor Cutskill Oxy/AcetyleneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38and spite!
Reply:All other parameters being set correctly, travel speed can make or break an otherwise good tig weld.  With all other arc welding processes, the deposition is tied to the current, so you can gauge your travel speed by the size of the puddle.  If the puddle widens, too slow;  if it thins and humps up, too fast.  With tig, you don't have that visual clue to tell your hand to move at the right speed.  Think of a surfer riding a wave.  If he goes too slow, he'll fall off the back of the wave.  Too fast and he'll get in front of the wave, lose speed, and then wreck when the wave hits him.  When you strike an arc, you create a "wave" of heat energy that travels through the work.  This wave moves fast in aluminum, and more slowly in stainless steel.  You need to keep your travel speed steady to "ride" this wave as you weld.  This is why it's hard to control a weld at the end of a small workpiece.  That heat energy is cruising out in front of the weld, and when it hits the end of the work, it starts to pile up real fast.  It's a bizarre analogy, but it helped me to visualize how welds are made.
Reply:Ooooh! Looks like a turbo project in the 1st pic. Very cool.
Reply:Originally Posted by graphixdezign6Ooooh! Looks like a turbo project in the 1st pic. Very cool.
Reply:Sweet!  I almost put a Garrett t3\t04e 57trim on my integra but i wussed out!  Was a little over my head and for a daily driver i was afraid of reliability.Tryin to just get a JRSC on there now.
Reply:Check the left had gauge on your regulator:     It should say "Argon" on the dial face and the orifice size. The fitting that the hose connects to has an orifice at the bottom of the hole.In which case the gauge on the left most likely reads 0-25 on the inside scale and 0-50 on the outer scale .Inside scale is LPM and outer scale is CFM. This would be 20 CFH (Cubic feet per hour) not "PSI".Are you real sure  . .... that's stainless? The upper piece looks like some kind of plated coating. Sure looks like the kind of crappy weld you get when welding something that has plating contaminating the weld puddle.Washman
Reply:Good info on the orifice flow control.Good idea on plated rather than SS, you may have nailed it.Here's info on flow rate as a function of pressure and orifice size:http://www.thefabricator.com/Consuma...cle.cfm?ID=347
Reply:The problem I see is that Underwhere is not wearing his seatbelt.  I think we have a safety issue here.Michael
Reply:his gas flow problem is derived from SITTING ON THE SUPPLY LINE hehe
Reply:Just a thought, but in the second picture is that a tall fan pointing at you?  If it is and it is running while you are welding it could be some of the problem.LaterRandy
Reply:Ok something is still very wrong.I was welding 2 pieces of stainless pipe together. About 1/16 thick.When I wasn't using filler rod, the welds seemed fine.When I use filler, it started getting that dirty look to it.Both pieces are 304 stainless and I was using 1/16 308L filler.Does the "L" make a difference? I tried some normal 308 filler but it's 1/8 so it was way too big...same dirty welds.Seems like the only time I have issues is with stainless.Any more suggestions?Settings:Pulsed 40 high, 20 low50 wave balance120 frequency5 amp start5 second post flow15 cfmThings I tried:1. NO sanding. Only acetone and a stainless steel brush2. NO stainless brush (fingered maybe the brush was contaminated?). I used a 3M scotchbrite type pad and AcetoneLast edited by Underwhere; 03-30-2007 at 10:48 PM.
Reply:Do I have the amperage set too high?You can see it dirty here...when I brush, it becomes very clean and pretty though.
Reply:Are you sure that between dips of the filler you're not letting the end of the filler get out of the shielding gas flow? The end of the filler gets above red hot and if it contacts the atmosphere it will oxidize and become contaminated, the the next time you dip, that contamination get right into the puddle.Also, before you start a weld, trim the oxidized end off the filler to prevent contaminating the puddle from the first dip.As for that second pic, that's called "sugaring" it's what happens when the underside of the puddle (which is often molten or very close to it on thin material) comes in contact with the atmosphere. The only way to prevent it is to back purge or provide shielding gas to the back side. However, unless the piece is going into some sort of food service application or other high-quality requirement application, it won't really cause a problem.Visit Tensaiteki.com
Reply:Originally Posted by TensaitekiAre you sure that between dips of the filler you're not letting the end of the filler get out of the shielding gas flow? The end of the filler gets above red hot and if it contacts the atmosphere it will oxidize and become contaminated, the the next time you dip, that contamination get right into the puddle.Also, before you start a weld, trim the oxidized end off the filler to prevent contaminating the puddle from the first dip.As for that second pic, that's called "sugaring" it's what happens when the underside of the puddle (which is often molten or very close to it on thin material) comes in contact with the atmosphere. The only way to prevent it is to back purge or provide shielding gas to the back side. However, unless the piece is going into some sort of food service application or other high-quality requirement application, it won't really cause a problem.
Reply:T the line going into your machine, put a ball valve & a check valve on it so you can control the flow. Set that on the backside of the weld to purge the atmosphere.AFA pipe, you put your line in the pipe clos to the weld & block off the pipe. Some people use caps, I preffer shoving a piece of bread in there b/c it's quick & you can do it clsoe tot he weld, requiring less pre-flow to purge. (Turn the machine on to get flow, just don't weld for afew seconds. Let the gas flow out.)btw, you're talking VERY little flow rates 2 back purge in the size pipe you're using. 5cfh is plenty.Last edited by Toysrme; 03-31-2007 at 10:17 AM.
Reply:Oh & pulser is right. Spray some windex (or any glass cleaner really) on your regulator & hosing. It takes seconds to do... Same thing goes for all the connections of your hose. Spray your torch body to make sure it doesn't leak, spray the two-three connections inside your machine & spray your connections outside the machine.Here's one of my ching-chong regulators a week after I installed it on an 80cu^ft bottle oh 75%he 25%ar. Was wondering why it seemed to be dropping pretty fast. Had about an hour's welding on it & after a week of sitting it hit 100psi.  Thena gain I actually made money on it LoL! Paid $37 shipped & got $40 to re-fill the tank. Nice guy...Last edited by Toysrme; 03-31-2007 at 12:36 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by ToysrmeOh & pulser is right. Spray some windex (or any glass cleaner really) on your regulator & hosing. It takes seconds to do... Same thing goes for all the connections of your hose. Spray your torch body to make sure it doesn't leak, spray the two-three connections inside your machine & spray your connections outside the machine.
Reply:underwhere It looks to me that your welding way too hot. try welding an inside 90degree peices at a lower heat and see what the color looks like and inside 90 will keep the gas around the weld better
Reply:Originally Posted by mfurickunderwhere It looks to me that your welding way too hot. try welding an inside 90degree peices at a lower heat and see what the color looks like and inside 90 will keep the gas around the weld better
Reply:Nice photo of leaking regulator.  I know it seems counter intuitive to most people, but it's true that a leak can allow air to enter and contaminate the shielding gas.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserNice photo of leaking regulator.  I know it seems counter intuitive to most people, but it's true that a leak can allow air to enter and contaminate the shielding gas.
Reply:inside 90degrees take two pieces of strait scrap and weld tack them in a inside corner weld the inside of the corner so the sheilding gas will be blocked and contained better in one area.  L
Reply:Sophie?Nice to see ya here. Last edited by TeCKis300; 04-18-2007 at 04:41 PM.