Is this NORMAL for a welding school??

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I'm finally going to a local Alabama vocational welding school a few nights a week. Since I'm pretty new to welding, I don't really know what I should expect out of a welding school, but is this typical?:1.  No working ventilators in any of the 20 welding booths.  No respirators supplied or required. 2.  No welding screens to block students walking by the booths (to protect against arc lights and flying slag & grinding cinders). 3.  No safety glasses  or face shields required while grinding, chipping, or milling.4.  All welding cables are placed across walk areas  (the arc machines are across the aisles, not in the booths themselves).  5.  NO safety instructions given to students (i.e., arc burn dangers, eye protection needs, machinery operating directions, how to properly work with oxy/acetylene, etc.).6.  No apparent equipment maintenance for many years (everything looks old and trashed, with 80% useless stingers, many taped-up welding cables, a few unbalanced angle grinders, etc.). Should I be concerned, or is this normal for a low-cost ($250/3 months) county subsidized arc welding school?Thanks!-Bill
Reply:Yep, I would be very concerned.If you still decide to go, just remember to ""make your own conditions"".Don't hang around if they go welding stainless w/o venting the fumes either.Good Luck.
Reply:You might try a different school in a larger populated area..   if you have a larger town near by try a school in that town...  A larger populated school will have more funding for vocational programs...tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:You get what you pay for....My name's not Jim....
Reply:have you spoke to the instructor> as was said, you know whats needed, protect yerself...btw..how is the instruction?  i tooka similar course at a boces facility . the instructor was good, but low on the totem pole and the politics there was intense.. the day instructor used to accuse my (night) instructor of all kinds of bs just to protect his own tenuous position..Last edited by weldbead; 09-02-2011 at 04:38 AM.
Reply:I think that for a low-budget school, having somewhat run-down equipment is just unavoidable at times. But not requiring safety glasses in the shop, no screens for the welding booths, no safety instruction... That kinda scares me a little. Safety glasses should be worn at all times, a good pair will help protect your eyes if (when) you accidentally look at a welding arcJust for reference I guess, when I was going to school at the tech college full time at 30 hours a week, tuition was about $200 a month. And we had none of those issues you've mentioned. For a few nights a week, I think the tuition would be comparable to what you're payingGive me fuel, give me fire, give me that which I desire.
Reply:Sounds like the only thing they are teaching are BAD HABITS.You really have to wonder what quality of welding process instruction you will be getting if the basic infrastructure and regard for personal safety are so poor. I don't see much of a bargain. Isn't your time worth better than that?There are Pell grants and AWS scholarships given freely to people looking to improve their employability skills. My school is an hour away and I'd gladly drive twice that for the program I'm in. Its an investment of your time and $$$. The return on that investment is determined by your work ethic and the availability of proper instruction. If either part of that equation is non-existant then you are just pi$$ing your time and money away.Just my opinion.Eric
Reply:Too many educational institutions are set up just to collect government subsidies and peoples hard earned cash while making a profit for investors.  Even here in Canada where most facilities are government run the odd trade school appears.  I have seen one welding student who was inflicted with such a program trying to make up his training in a proper facility.  He basically had to start from the beginning again.
Reply:May not be a bad learning experience. A lot of job environments are the same as you described.$250 is not bad if you are not standing in line to use a working machine. If you are not getting the instruction or practice right off, you could demand your tuition back.The good thing is you have the internet. You already have schooled yourself somewhat.Keep at it and you will succeed.Good Luck.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I wouldn't consider it "normal". Good thing for them OSHA isn't involved.IF you're going to continue there.......... Get yourself safety glasses, face shield, hearing protection and steel toed boots at a minimum.It's going to be difficult at best to look out for what's going on around you to protect yourself while trying to concentrate on what you are there for.Once some people there are competent enough the first class project should be erecting something so the cables can be routed overhead to eliminate the trip hazzard.As mentioned before............. I'd recommend looking into somewhwere else.  I haven't met any blind weldors yet.
Reply:Seriously...find another school. The possibility of serious injury in an environment such as you described are very high and certainly not worth the tuitional bargin. Make a phone call to OSHA. The safety of the students apparently is not of much concern to the institution.StephenMillermatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200Miller 30A SpoolgunHypertherm Powermax 30Etc., etc., etc.............Cancer Sucks!
Reply:sorry, i just can't buy into this story.  do they take student loan money?
Reply:Thanks for all of the great comments guys!  I'm very concerned about all of the dangers there, and it's rather a chore to try to avoid them all -- that is why I attempt to never leave my own booth! I also learn all of the stuff that this place is NOT teaching us by reading the great Larry Jeffus book (Welding, Principles and Applications, 5th ED), as well as going online.The only positive thing about all this, as Shovelon stated, is that many real-life work environments are similar to this, down to the no AC and 100 degree/90% humidity levels!  I would like to go to a college welding class;  I will look into it immediately.  There is a possibility in the next town over, but the junior college welding class is $900!!Best,-BillPS: Sorry, fdcmiami, but please be more specific about which part of the story you refuse to "buy into".  And I don't know if they take student loan money, but the local job center subsidizes students who cannot afford the $250 tuition.
Reply:dude you need to call the state health department. Simply the exposure to welding fumes from inadequate ventilation will get their attention. regarding the notion that your class environment will be the same as many "real world" environments, the rules are the same, and the same protections and preventative measures are required. This may be your first lesson in demanding a safe workplace.edit: and NO, this is not normal. The welding shop for my apprenticeship was shut down by the state inspector specifically due to inadequate ventilation.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:Are there laws in Alabama regarding accreditation for schools?  May want to find out.  Personally, I recommend running, not walking, away from this place.  If you are hurt while at this "school" you will not be eligible for workman's comp.  At best you could sue them but from the description you've given, I wouldn't expect much.  They would probably fold up quicker than an old book.I taught at a welding school for a couple of summers and it was not anything near like you are describing.  Safety was first and foremost, and it was run like a job.  Rules were posted and enforced at all times.  Maintenance of equipment was a very high priority.  With such a lax attitude toward everything mentioned, I would not have very high expectations regarding the teaching end of things."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:like i said, i'm not buying this story.   why don't you just ask for you're 250 back and find another place to learn to weld.  for someone new to welding you do a good job of listing the common safety violations found in a weld shop/school.  what's your  point?   are are you looking for a list of 'oh my's' to show to someone?Last edited by fdcmiami; 09-02-2011 at 04:05 PM.
Reply:Thanks Tenpins and Bob;  my wife tells me to run from that place too -- until I tell her how much the college welding course costs! (Not too mention that the college makes you also buy your own rods.  Ouch!).  From fdcmiami: "...for someone new to welding you do a good job of listing the common safety violations found in a weld shop/school."      Well, thanks fdcmiami; I do somewhat take pride in myself for reading and digesting the info that is freely available on the Internet and in text books on welding safety, so I do appreciate your compliment.-Bill
Reply:My school was clean as a whistle. But none of the migs were working, and half the tigs were down for one reason or another. The instructor could not even change out a hose for stepping on union toes. Glad those days are gone.Well if your school is as bad as it seems, this country is screwed. But if it is the only game in town then you gotta do what you gotta do.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:It's disturbingly common, but so long as YOU get booth time, weld as much as possible.I went to a decent school (and ended up being their toolroom guy since I'm good with equipment) but still brought my own stinger with a lighter whip lead which I connected to their stingers. That's common and a good idea, plus I prefer the shortstub-style stingers.Lack of comfort is normal on the jobsite so ignore it. Learning to ignore discomfort is good training. For the price, it's CHEAP so weld yer azz off. If there is a limit on coupons, prep some at home and bring them in to get as much welding time as possible. Practice safety yourself, survive, and get the most out of it. Spend as much booth time as you can because you can literally READ the rest of what you need to know without a classroom environment. There is no reason you cannot take more than one class, but if you get enough out of this one to set up a training area at home, consider doing that if possible. A stick machine and a practice tree is pretty basic and you can learn a lot by relentless practice.Take digital pics and post them here.Bend tests are your friend. Do many.Alabama is a poor State. Welding classes are EXPENSIVE to run, and often seen as a source of money for other programs. I'd make the best of it because it would be pretty difficult NOT to get your moneys worth. Bring your own initiative, ignore everyone else except for safety (social distractions don't help people learn to weld!), work hard, then move on.Last edited by farmall; 09-02-2011 at 06:33 PM.
Reply:As Farmall and Shovelon say, it's a good life and welding experience to function under such primitive and uncomfortable conditions, especially since I am getting all the booth time I want, with no waiting and all the coupons and rods I can use -- all on the cheap.   As Farmall said also, I can do all the book learning on my own time (which I do already).The problem with reporting such conditions to some government safety administration, such as OSHA, is that this school, as in much of the rest of Alabama, is so poor that it would close down immediately if it had to spend any real money on improvements -- and then I, along with the others in the class, would be SOL.And since I wear my own anti-radiation safety glasses, a P100 respirator, and watch out for all of the cables and metal strewn about, then just so long as I don't get blown-up by some clueless student who hasn't been instructed (at all!) on oxy/acetylene start-up procedures (like the need to purge the acetylene and oxy gas hoses, or what the safe maximum acetylene pressure should be ), then I should be OK!-Bill
Reply:I would get what you can from in a safe manner. If your not comfortable with something then plan say shouldnt we be wearing our ppe for this. Then when your 3 months is up and you burned through all the stick rods, mig, flux wire etc. tell them how you feel about the school and call OSHA. Then move on to a better school. Time spent under the hood is time well spent in my opinion just do what you think is safe.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welding_SwedeSounds like the only thing they are teaching are BAD HABITS.You really have to wonder what quality of welding process instruction you will be getting if the basic infrastructure and regard for personal safety are so poor. I don't see much of a bargain. Isn't your time worth better than that?There are Pell grants and AWS scholarships given freely to people looking to improve their employability skills. My school is an hour away and I'd gladly drive twice that for the program I'm in. Its an investment of your time and $$$. The return on that investment is determined by your work ethic and the availability of proper instruction. If either part of that equation is non-existant then you are just pi$$ing your time and money away.Just my opinion.Eric
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamilike i said, i'm not buying this story.   why don't you just ask for you're 250 back and find another place to learn to weld.  for someone new to welding you do a good job of listing the common safety violations found in a weld shop/school.  what's your  point?   are are you looking for a list of 'oh my's' to show to someone?
Reply:That place sounds like its out of the 60's and most of this is not common in a work place other than cables across the floor, flying sparks and no welding curtains.  The school I went to had curtains for every booth and the machines are in the booth.  Hearing protection is encouraged but safety glasses and steel toe boots and gloves and all other PPE is required when welding or grinding or cutting or chipping or brushing.  Ventilation is in each booth though respirators are not required.  Where I work at all PPE is required, respirators are required, ventilation is required, hearing protection is required, basically you name it and its required including things you've never heard of unless you've worked in a shipyard before.Find another school and in the mean time contact the department of education about this one, if your paying $250 a month with that lack of safety then the instruction is not going to be of any real value.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.
Reply:Originally Posted by Big65moparThat place sounds like its out of the 60's and most of this is not common in a work place other than cables across the floor, flying sparks and no welding curtains.  Find another school and in the mean time contact the department of education about this one, if your paying $250 a month with that lack of safety then the instruction is not going to be of any real value.Sounds alot like the shop I work in Does not sound like the school I went to No safety glasses required while grinding - WTF?
Reply:By shovelon;Turning them in may only screw the pooch.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmall...For the price, it's CHEAP so weld yer azz off.
Reply:I would finish out the semester and look for another school with a better program.  There are other welding schools such as Lincoln and the Hobart Institute that are known for putting out good welders.  I would ask around to some local employers who have hired graduates to find their opinion of the people quality they produce.  If employers have a low opinion then you may have a hard time finding a job, or they may pay you less.Lots of times at the CC the night time classes are different from the day programs.  The night programs are usually people who want to learn to weld, but they have no desire to do it for a living.  They are just a basic learning type program.
Reply:Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265  The night programs are usually people who want to learn to weld, but they have no desire to do it for a living.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonI agree that the place sounds like it is out of another era. But I think the OP said he is paying $250 for 3 months.Turning them in may only screw the pooch. Perhaps it does meet local standards.