new to tig, water cooled or not?

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i want to buy a tig welder and i am leaning towards a lincoln precision tig 225 or a miller syncrowave 200. which one do you guys thick is a better machine and should i get a water cooled torch? it will most likely be used for hobby work and light fab on the side.  I already have large mig and arc machines now.
Reply:For just screwing around hobby type stuff, I'd just start with an air-cooled torch for simplicity. That's my 2 cents, hardcore tig folks will tell you otherwise I'm sure.Which suburb you in? Just curious, I'm in Alqonquin.- John
Reply:id go with a air colled for now you can always get a water cooler later. in fact you can make one.
Reply:ditto
Reply:I have an air cooled torch rated to 150 amps.  I've been welding a lot of .125" aluminum lately and I can weld for about 30 seconds before the torch gets too hot.  There is a picture of a homemade watercooler on this site(projects and pics forum) that looks pretty sweet.  It is definetly the next project on my list.  Another benefit of the water cooled torch is the cables are much more flexible than an air cooled.  I have a Lincoln machine with a Lincoln "Ultraflex" torch.  It may say ultraflex, but it's still real stiff.  It takes a while to figure out how to lay the hose on your lap, table, whatever so that it doesn't interfere with your welding.  On the other hand, my shop gets cold in the winter, and I don't want to freeze my torch.  But I have heard Miller makes an antifreeze good to -40.
Reply:IMO go water cooled and don t look back have used both  water all the way
Reply:I also wrestled with comparing the Precision TIG 225 to the Syncrowave.Here are some manufacturer comparisons that helped a little with comparing features and benefits, etc.:http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...owave_200.htmlhttp://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/e3372.pdfRight now I have my mind set on the Syncrowave because I have a local dealer that carries Miller and feel more comfortable with local service and support.  In choosing between the two machines, it does seem to be a tough choice.On the water cooled torch question, I'm already straining the budget just for the machine so my choice on that score is easy. Let us know what you decide to get.
Reply:It depends.  If your idea of light fab is a lot of heavier plate or thicker aluminum, then go water cooled.  If you're like me and most of the work is done either running root and hot passes in pipe, or .083 wall tubing for roll cages and the like, then the water cooled torch is unecessary, and is extra bulk you're trying to cram into tight spaces.
Reply:Almost ALL the people that attend one of My classes have a air cooled torch that they use..After using my torch..They all want one bad...Once you use a watercooled torch you'll never go back.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:.125 aluminum should not get your torch so hot that you can't use it. Are you using decent gloves? Probably a stupid question, but the tig gloves I see out there are pretty weak. To get that hot, you would have to be using your duty cycle up 100%. I have experienced that kind of heat only under heavy manufacturing of parts.(aluminum parts)Bill
Reply:If you have a choice, get a liquid-cooled unit with matching torch. You'll be glad you did.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:I use both and honestly don't have a great preference for a lot of jobs. Once the current goes much over 120A, the water cooled wins hands down. At lower current, the air cooled is fine, and sometimes preferable, both due to toughness (no cooling hoses to worry about crimping up or poking through or dropping a heavy hunk onto) and on the portable machine, the cooler would be bigger than the machine.If price is an issue, gas cooled is definately cheaper, and I would suggest a gas cooled torch should be in everyones kit even if the need is rare. If you go water cooled, a gas cooled with a built in gas valve gives you versatility on those jobs where you need the longer lead ("Goldang it! I need another foot!")
Reply:I always used Water cooled when welding until I recently purchased a little tig welder that had an air cooled torch.  I was doing some stainless pipe and the torch melted itself shut.  I couldn't unscrew the back of it.  I had to crack the plastic piece off and try to get the copper fitting out with pliers but it wouldn't come out.I have a watercooler and watercooled torch that I will be putting on it now.