Ugh...Noob questions here.

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Alright, I just signed up here and the first sticky I ran thru just flamed guys for not searching.  So...Im going to post my questions and story and do some searching while waiting to see if anybody responds...sound okay?Im sure my story has been heard at least 100 times and the questions I will ask have been asked 1000 times...but here goes.I have not welded since HS (about 20 years).  I liked it and was half way decent at it, but didnt put any real effort in cuz I was too busy chasing the girls around our shop.  Yes, we had plenty of girls in shop classes in HS....LOL.I have recently started a 69 Dodge Coronet project.  The car needs a signifigant amount of rust repair.  All the usual spots (rear quarters, trunk floor, rear window channel).  But It also has a few spots on frame rails that need repairing.Ive been looking online at some Mig welders and was jsut about to pull the trigger on an MM 180 when my wife and a bunch of friends show up with a big gift for me.   I rip it open and what do you know....its a mig welder!  Here is the catch...it is not what I would have gotten, thats for sure.  Im no expert, but from reviews and advice that Ive read, the one they got me is not too great.  Its a Campbell Hausfeld Pro 140.  Model # is WG 3090.  Anyone have any experience with this model?  Is it just a total piece of you know what or do you think it should be okay for what Im trying to do?I dont know where they got the idea to get me that one, but now I have it.  And there is no way I can return it or anything like that.  Not unless I want 10 of my closest friends pissed at me.  Not to mention my wife....So that really leads me into the other questions.  What else do I need and how the heck do I get started?  Helmet?  auto darkening?  what shade?Bottle?  what size?  C25?Do I need a cart?How much wire do I need?  I only set up the small spool of .030.Recomended tools?  What am I missing?  I was going to go into the local weld shop tomorrow and get some stuff and ask questions, but I dont want to sound like a total idiot, so I thought I could get some advice from you guys.Now how do I get started?  I mean how do I go about practicing?  Just get a bunch of different gauge steel and go to town?  I almost feel like I should follow a lesson plan....LOL.  There is so much info out there, its a little hard to know where to start.  Any books (something like Mig welding for dummies, or beginner mig welding)?Alright this is starting to ramble on....I apologize.I will do some searching now, but any advice about my concerns listed above would be helpful.  Or if you guys have links to kind of speed up my searching, that would be great.Thanks for helping!
Reply:Doesn't look like the best 110 mig welder in the world but for welding body pannels it should be enough.Why don't you talk your wife about exchanging the welder for a better unit while you pay for the extra cost? I don't think anyone could complain. After all, they helped you getting what you wanted.Mikel
Reply:Unfortunately that machine is underpowered in general compared to the MM180 you were thinking about. Under real world conditions that machine will top out at 1/8" steel, despite what the manufacturers lit might say. The MM 180 tops out at 1/4", so it's a huge jump in output power. That jump will benefit you not just in the max thickness you can weld, but how long you can weld thinner materials and still get a decent weld. Small migs are notorious for making good looking welds that don't burn into the base material well, especially if you exceed their very low duty cycles. Small 110v machines like the CH are at best good for sheet metal work. Second, the quality control on machines like that are often not the greatest. Wire feed can be erratic and that will play he11 trying to get good welds. The problem is there's no way to know if the machine you got will have these quality control issues and work right or if you'll end up with one of the ones that just has problems over and over.I hear you on the return thing. I run into it every year on holiday's and birthdays. People I know who have no clue what I need trying to "give" me something I can use and end up just wasting their money. yes it's the thought that counts, but an item with limited usefulness won't help you in the long run. It will not be too long before you out grow that small machine and need to spend the money on the bigger one if you find you enjoy welding. It's a tricky subject. How to explain that you appreciate the gift, but that it's not the right tool for the job, and that you really need to get the right tool or you'll waste money and possibly destroy a nice classic car thats tough to replace. I'd hope your wife would understand this, and that comments here might help her understand why it's really not the right machine. If possible you'd be best off returning it and getting the MM180 at a minimum, or better yet if funds allow, a larger 200 amp class mig or one of the dual voltage machines like the Miller MM211 or Hobart's new HH210 MVP that lets you use either 110v or 220v power.That said I'd suggest a decent auto darkening helmet to learn with. It makes it much easier to learn. I'd look at the units around $100 or so and up. You get one set of eyes, and personally I don't trust the cheap HF units, again due to QC issues with inexpensive Chinese made products. If price is a big issue, just get a plain #10 shade fixed Jackson hood and be done with it for now. Thousands ( probably millions) of people have learned with these and use them daily. There's nothing wrong with them, it's just you have to get used to no seeing where you are going to start when you nod your head and drop the hood. I had one instructor who wouldn't let new students learn with anything but a fixed hood.You will want a cylinder of C25 to do body work. Size wise, get the largest cyl you can afford, since gas is cheaper per cf in larger cylinders, plus you don't have to run out as much with them. A 40 cf cyl will last roughly 2 hrs of weld time. I started out with a 40cf and almost immediately upgraded  to a 60cf then up to an 80cf because we ran out so quickly. It's a real PITA if you want to weld on weekends and you gas supplier isn't open on weekends. You will also need to weld indoors using gas or rig a windbreak ( or only weld on calm days) so the wind doesn't blow away your shielding gas.For auto body work you will want to run .023-025 wire. Save the .030 wire for heavier steel like your cart. Also make sure the wire is not flux core wire. FC is fine for heavier metals, but not for sheet metal work. It's too hot and the flux is bad for paint and hard to remove. Stick to solid wire unless you have a need to weld outside in wind on 14 ga or heavier steel.The cart is optional, but it does make moving the cylinder and machine around easier. It's also a good learning project to work on. I've made do with a hand truck or a simple wheeled office cart in the past, so you can build or use what ever you want.As far as tools a 4 1/2" grinder is a definite. Many guys have more than one so you don't have to switch between grinding wheels for thicker steel and sanding disks or flap wheels for sheet metal. You will want to use sanding disks/flap wheels for the body work, possibly in several grits depending on the severity of the rust. You will also want some decent gloves and possibly a leather jacket if you try to weld under the vehicle.A few other thoughts... I'd strongly suggest looking into a night class at a local tech school of Community college. When you sit down and add up what the material, wire, electric etc would cost not to mention the instruction, a class is usually stupid cheap. Add to that you often have available other tools like plasma, OA, shears, iron workers etc not to mention often better quality machines than your budget will allow in stick, tig, OA and mig. If you are serious about restoring the car you might also see if the school offers night classes in auto body work. Many have a welding program, but some have auto body as well.If this is truly a classic and valuable, I'd definitely not start on this. You will do tremendous amounts of damage thats very hard and costly to repair ( been there, done that unfortunately). This might be one of those jobs best left to a true professional restorer, not some basic body shop. It will not be cheap, but they can get you a show quality car rather than destroying an irreplaceable classic. If you want to do it yourself, expect this to take a long time to develop the skills before you start on your car. Go get friendly with the local auto salvage guy. Buy up a bunch of old fenders, hoods and trunks you can practice on, preferably about the same condition and age of yours so you are working with similar metal. You can often sell them back to them for scarp prices. I used to know a yard that would sell me unusable fenders for almost nothing and "swap" them later  for others after I'd patched on them for practice. Another option is to get a beater and practice on it so when you screw up you won't do irreparable damage to the good car.Finally, frame and suspension work is not something that should be tackled by an inexperienced welder. They are advanced projects that have to be done right the 1st time for safety and liability reasons. I know it's tempting to do the repairs yourself, but this is one area best left to those with the training and experience to do it right every time.You'll find a lot of info on all these topics if you do some searching here. Good luck.Last edited by DSW; 09-22-2011 at 09:10 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Welcome to the site!I wouldn't sweat the welder too much.  If you can't return it without upsetting the SWMBO & friends then start learning with it.  Hey, it was a great gesture on their part - if not the best informed...Tools:- the best quality helmet you can afford (within reason)- welding gloves- welding cap (trust me on this one - I learned that one the hard way)- chipping hammer- wire brush or two- angle grinderThat's good just to get started.  Once you start actually building things:- various clamps (you never have too many)- maybe some magnets- marking stones- a chop saw...If you find your projects are too much for the welder you have then upgrade later.  Most guys who have one machine have a second, or more.  This machine should be good for sheetmetal and I wouldn't recommend you tackle car frame rails until you have some experience and ideally maybe a night class under you belt anyway - so by then you'll likely have added a more robust machine."These instructions are at our present level ofknowledge. Legal requirements do not exist.Technical issues subject to change."_________________________________________Lincoln MIG PAK 180Lincoln AC-225
Reply:So your wife bought you a welder. My wife never bought me one.Anyway. I would keep it. As said before it should work well for body panels 1/16 and thinner. Structural members are out of the question. It just does not have the ooomph.One thing you could do is pick up a roll of ESAB easygrind wire .030 diameter. Forget about the .023 easygrind, it is too soft(.023 ER70S-6 is stiffer and runs ok). This stuff starts an arc like a dream at low amps, and is softer so it buckles the sheet a bit less. Then because it does not harden up so much upon cooling, it peens or squishes flat easier to take the canning out. I use quite a bit of easygrind wire for tacking as well as welding sheet that has to be ground down later.You can also run SS wire .030" dia. with some 90argon/10CO2. Trick I use on SS is to clip the wire on every start at an angle to start easier.If you can master your CH, then maybe the wifie will let you buy a Thermalarc181i. You get 180amps mig, and stick, with tig and spoolgun ready for $850. Then you could run some ER70S-6 for structural work. Good Luck and have fun. Make something nice for the wife.Last edited by shovelon; 09-22-2011 at 10:24 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWUnfortunately that machine is . . .. . . but this is one area best left to those with the training and experience to do it right every time.
Reply:Hey guys, Thanks for the warm welcome and taking the time to give advice.Ive been doing alot of searching and just basically acquiring knowledge about processes, equipment, etc.  Very good info here.  Of course, nothing will substitute practice, but its a start.  I will be heading over to the supply store in a little bit to talk with them and pick up some things.A couple things....not to ignore the advice, but I will be keeping the CH 140.  It really was a very nice gesture and the fact that my wife got me a welder (even though its not the exact one I want) makes her one pretty cool wife IMHO.  I will practice on it and try to learn as much as I can and when I need to upgrade in the future, I will do it with my own money.  That way, Ill end up with what I want and no one gets offended.As far as restoring the car, I should probly clarify my goals.  This car is strictly a street driver that will see some track time on weekends.  It is NOT a show car, nor will it ever be.  It was originally a granny getter /6, so that kills any chances of winning trophies anyways...LOL.  With that said, I still want it to look nice.  I really just want to get the rust out and paint it.  Nothing professional, just new metal and some decent paint.I will not do any welding on the car until I have practiced an I feel Im ready.  I know that will take a while.  I will also look into a class just for the simple fact that I would like some one who is in the know to judge my work and oversee what I am doing, whether its right or wrong.Thanks again guys, Ill let you know how its going and post more as things come up.
Reply:There is a huge difference between welding sheet metal and welding heavier guage steel, in fact its the compete opposite,  sheet metal is welded with small tacks( you want just enough heat to penetrate), spread over the length of the weld, on areas you can get behind you can hammer weld, ( weld a little then hammer/dolly the metal to stretch it back out,and so on) until the seam is completely welded. I'm pretty sure those dodges are uni-body and they don't have seperate chassis/frame. This is probably the only area on the car that you can actually run a stringer weld without worrying about warpage. Do as much research as you can before you start cutting and welding. Check out metalmeet.comLincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Originally Posted by DemonSpeeder...I'm pretty sure those dodges are uni-body and they don't have seperate chassis/frame...
Reply:Yes, the car is unibody.Update....I have decided to "Man up" and let the wifey and friends know that I would like to return the CH pro 140.  The more research I do, the more I realize that in the long run, I will not be happy with it.  I figure I should just return it now while its new so I could put that money towards something else.  Originally, I was looking at the MM180.  My LWS has it for 809.  While I was there, I started looking at the MM211AS w/ MVP.  It seems to get great reviews and the AS would certainly help a newb like me (just as long as I dont rely on it).So...long story short, the 211 is what Im going with.Thanks for all the help.
Reply:Don't forget about c-list... some times there some pretty good deals on used equipment.Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Originally Posted by kllrbeeYes, the car is unibody.Update....I have decided to "Man up" and let the wifey and friends know that I would like to return the CH pro 140.  The more research I do, the more I realize that in the long run, I will not be happy with it.  I figure I should just return it now while its new so I could put that money towards something else.  Originally, I was looking at the MM180.  My LWS has it for 809.  While I was there, I started looking at the MM211AS w/ MVP.  It seems to get great reviews and the AS would certainly help a newb like me (just as long as I dont rely on it).So...long story short, the 211 is what Im going with.Thanks for all the help.
Reply:A couple of things welcome And you have made a fine choice of projects. Been there done that ( a 72 charger SE (in Canada -Lots of road salt)) Had it since 1981 and needed lots of body repair. Wife bought you a toy that is awsome she is a keeper  also go into your settings and put in your location so we know where you are located (city and state is fine). The welder recommendations I will leave to others that know more BUT If the welding thing is something your going to stay with buy big and it can be used for lots of stuff doun the road .If you buy small you will need a bigger machine later for something else ie an engine stand etc . The bigger unit has a higher resale market and price later too.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Alright, I added some details to profile.DSW, I will get up some pics later.  Its still in process of teardown.  But almost there.  Just rest of interior, the glass, and some steel lines.  Then time for sanding.  I probly wont even be welding on it for another 6 months, but I wanted to give myself ALOT of practice time.  So the sooner I start, the better.Mopar forums I go to are Moparts and For B Bodies Only.  Check em out, they have for sale sections.