Tig welding dissimilar metals with two twisted mig wires

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I was wondering if I were to weld two dissimilar metals together how would I pick the filler rod?Let's say for example I wanted to weld stainless to mild steel.  Could I just twist mild and stainless mig wire together and tig it with that and get maximum strength?  Or would I want to buy a specialty filler rod?
Reply:When welding Mild steel to SS you need to use 309 filler.- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Well, I was just giving an example.  My question is in general can this be done.  Like aluminum, to SS, or titanium to mild steel, or A514 to a magnesium alloy etc...The reason why I thought of this is because with friction stir or tig welding with no filler you only have the two base metals at hand.  So technically using equal parts of suitable filler rod should work just as good as fusing them together, right?
Reply:If only it were that easy.
Reply:Maybe it could be done with alchemy flux.
Reply:ZTFab,I agree, "the only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked".With that said, this one gets pretty close.For a poster with 450+ posts, this is pretty bad.In answer to the original question, NO, twisting dissimilar filler together will not weld incompatable metals.  This is covered in most any "basic welding" book you pick up.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabWhen welding Mild steel to SS you need to use 309 filler.- Paul
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIZTFab,I agree, "the only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked".With that said, this one gets pretty close.For a poster with 450+ posts, this is pretty bad.In answer to the original question, NO, twisting dissimilar filler together will not weld incompatable metals.  This is covered in most any "basic welding" book you pick up.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII agree, "the only stupid question is the one that wasn't asked".With that said, this one gets pretty close.For a poster with 450+ posts, this is pretty bad.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabSo SundownIII, since your post count is only 11, am I to assume that you know little to nothing about welding?Since when does post count on a website signify real world knowledge/experience?Not berating and making derogatory remarks about members of this website is covered in the "basic terms of agreement" that you read when you signed up to be a member here. - Paul
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyI was wondering if I were to weld two dissimilar metals together how would I pick the filler rod?Let's say for example I wanted to weld stainless to mild steel.  Could I just twist mild and stainless mig wire together and tig it with that and get maximum strength?  Or would I want to buy a specialty filler rod?
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyWell, I was just giving an example.  My question is in general can this be done.  Like aluminum, to SS, or titanium to mild steel, or A514 to a magnesium alloy etc...The reason why I thought of this is because with friction stir or tig welding with no filler you only have the two base metals at hand.  So technically using equal parts of suitable filler rod should work just as good as fusing them together, right?
Reply:I think an easy test would be to take the torch and see if the two materials would fuse without filler.  If they don't then I don't see how adding more of the same would help.  I'm not sure aluminum and stainless would fuse together when welding to produce a strong weld.  Phila.renewal,  I have attached some aluminum to ferrous material before using an aluminum type solder.  I think it was Esab strongset or something to that effect but it would bond aluminum to steel quite strongly.  It would cut out all multiple metals and joining operations if you had a project requiring steel to aluminum.  Just an ideaI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabSince when does post count on a website signify real world knowledge/experience?- Paul
Reply:I like the idea of the test flight on different materials. I CAN tell you, if you use 316SS filler on aluminum, on accident, it will form a puddle..... then, when you cut the arc, you get horrible sounds, the weld warps horribly, and it all cracks. I bet if you spun steel filler and a silicon bronze filler, you would get an interesting but good weld. I will try to get some bronze rod and try it.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:See this link for an good example of how a 304 SS/mild steel, dissimilar weld chemistry is estimated and the correct 309 SS filler metal is chosen.http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson5_18.htmAll this talk of trying to weld aluminum to brass or whatever is just plain goofey.   Yes, it may work, and be ok for a piece of art on the shelf, but there are metallurical reasons for many metal combinations not being weldable, that's why they are called dissimilar.Solid state bonding, like friction stir welding, where the metals are not actually melted, allows joining of many otherwise unweldable metals.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingPhila.renewal,  I have attached some aluminum to ferrous material before using an aluminum type solder.  I think it was Esab strongset or something to that effect but it would bond aluminum to steel quite strongly.  It would cut out all multiple metals and joining operations if you had a project requiring steel to aluminum.  Just an idea
Reply:I was taught to use 309 to weld mild steel to stainless. I guess you could test a twisted wire setup but I don't think there would be any advantage. I have brazed stainless steel to brass but I used fluxed brass rod. It isn't easy but it works. Let us know how any experiments work out. Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserAll this talk of trying to weld aluminum to brass or whatever is just plain goofey.   Yes, it may work, and be ok for a piece of art on the shelf, but there are metallurical reasons for many metal combinations not being weldable, that's why they are called dissimilar.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloI like the idea of the test flight on different materials. I CAN tell you, if you use 316SS filler on aluminum, on accident, it will form a puddle..... then, when you cut the arc, you get horrible sounds, the weld warps horribly, and it all cracks. I bet if you spun steel filler and a silicon bronze filler, you would get an interesting but good weld. I will try to get some bronze rod and try it.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserSee this link for an good example of how a 304 SS/mild steel, dissimilar weld chemistry is estimated and the correct 309 SS filler metal is chosen.http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson5_18.htmAll this talk of trying to weld aluminum to brass or whatever is just plain goofey.   Yes, it may work, and be ok for a piece of art on the shelf, but there are metallurical reasons for many metal combinations not being weldable, that's why they are called dissimilar.Solid state bonding, like friction stir welding, where the metals are not actually melted, allows joining of many otherwise unweldable metals.
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadExcellent post pulser !! There are scientists and metalurgists that specialize in these things...trust their knowledge as you trust your own. Or carry several million in liabilty insurance and hope for the best.BTW; what are you doing posting facts
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadThere are scientists and metalurgists that specialize in these things...trust their knowledge as you trust your own.
Reply:Originally Posted by phila.renewalC'mon olddad.  Do you know how Esab developed the charts of facts posted?  There's only one way and it ain't in a book.  It's in an arc (and yes, in the lab afterwards).
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserbut there are just some metals that cannot be welded together using a fusion process and a twist of each alloy won't help that.ZTFab,I post these comments as a matter of clarification.This thread started with a question about joining dissimilar metals--cold steel to SS.  Your response, use 309 filler, was right on the money.  Things went downhill from there when the question was raised about twisting SS and alum wire together to weld SS to aluminum.Welding (all aspects) requires a basic understanding of metallurgy and how different metals react to heat, etc.  Without this understanding, any professed welder is fighting an uphill battle.  To me, posting questions on an internet board is no substitute for a little independent research.  The local library has books dedicated to the subject of joining dissimilar metals.  The process generally employed involves "brazing" rather than "fusion welding".I have read numerous posts from the original poster (WelderBoy) on this and other boards (Miller).  For an individual who professes to be a "professional certified welder", there appears to be a major disconnect.  My definition of "professional" is one who is characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession.  To call oneself a professional is easy, to substantiate it with fact is much more difficult.  There is no substitute for "proper training" and an internet board is not the place for that.  I was chastised for being blunt.  I suspect that, if the same question had been posed to his fellow professonal welders at his place of employment (shipyard), the answer would have been even more caustic.By the way, I am a "Registered Professional Engineer" and take the term "professional" very seriously.  It comes as the result of many years of study and real world experience.  As far as welding experience, I have been involved in welding since I was six years old (over 50 years).  I have been TIG welding since before many of you were born (Miller DialArc HF--thought I'd died and gone to heaven when the original Syncrowave (squarewave) machines were introduced).For the last 25 years, I have been involved in marine fabrication which makes extensive use of aluminum and stainless steel.  In a nutshell, I think it safe to state (in layman's terms) that the two just "don't like each other".  That's why a nonconductive barrier is used between the two.  When in direct contact the aluminum deteriorates quite rapidly.The internet, and particularly these boards, is a tremendous source for sharing information.  Much can be gained from others experience.  I learn something new everyday.  They are however, not a replacement for independent study and proper training.  Unfortunately, I've seen about as much "bad" information put out as I have seen "good" information disseminated.  Knowing the difference is where it all gets challenging.I'll go back to "reading" now.  Know that will make many happy.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabI don't think WelderBoy or Phila are talking about building structural components for their customers while experimenting with metallurgy.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIZTFab,...I am a "Registered Professional Engineer" and take the term "professional" very seriously.
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadThen what's the purpose ?
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabIf you can't see the difference in somebody wanting to do something just to see what happens and having to get clearance from a Welding Engineer while working on highly volatile pressure vessels and valves then I don't know what to say.I guess when you were a kid you never did anything  just to see how it worked or what it did, right?Maybe your parents didn't have enough liability insurance for you to do those things.   - Paul
Reply:Wow Paul..I didn't know you had some ...zap! in ya.. Keep up the good work.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Cracks me up that people take a silly little internet message board so darn seriously. A guy screwing around in his basement asks a question, and suddenly people are concerned that NASA is going to use his techniques and crash a space shuttle. (Note: You needn't point out that this wasn't what was said. I know that, just using extremism for emphasis).Now I'm off to set my grinders down on their faces, weld w/o gloves, and put together a skyscraper in my backyard using a 110v mig.- John
Reply:Make sure you pre-heat.....
Reply:Now I'm off to set my grinders down on their faces,
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII have read numerous posts from the original poster (WelderBoy) on this and other boards (Miller).  For an individual who professes to be a "professional certified welder", there appears to be a major disconnect.
Reply:OK....With all that's been said let's get this thread BACK ON TOPIC!!!- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:So sundown, you have nothing better to do than gossip on other forums about me because of my "Stupid Question"?  Shouldn't you be welding or something?  You are a welding god, aren't you?Read Sundown's posthttp://www.millerwelds.com/education...4892#post14892What a loser.Oh, and I can't believe somebody stole my avatar.  I didn't photoshop that for other people!  But whatever...
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyOh, and I can't believe somebody stole my avatar.  I didn't photoshop that for other people!  But whatever...
Reply:Redneck, go ahead and join dissimilar metals and make sure you post pics. maybe tigging AR500 to cast iron could be done. never know, i wouldn't even know where to begin adding fillers. most of my work is stick, mig and the tig work i do is ali and A36. so i would like to see the results. maybe the weld fails the hammer test, maybe it don't. maybe it cracks, then try post heating some and see what it does. i am currently trying to build a new style of reflexive armor for DARPA. i am no engineer, or a metalurgist, but i am trying to do something to help the troops. so you never know where this experiment may take you."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzznow that explains a lot.  I was thinking you were that 13yo BOY that was posting on the miller site, sorry.
Reply:I may try it.  I know aluminum and ferrous metals will not work because of the corrosion factor.  I've seen stainless and aluminum corrode what seems like overnight when sat on top of each other.  In fact, when I posted those two I was just spilling out random metals side by side as mere examples.  Those two came out next to each other.I was more interested in like AR-500 and a magnesium alloy.  Nothing for what _I_ will need, but by utilizing the strength of a tool steel and the lightweight properties of magnesium alloys probably could be of use to people in the automotive industry since they could weld on pieces of steel as bushings and the rest being magnesium alloy and the part could still be lighter than aluminum in the end.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyI know aluminum and ferrous metals will not work because of the corrosion factor.  I've seen stainless and aluminum corrode what seems like overnight when sat on top of each other.
Reply:I remember seeing oxidation on stainless and aluminum when they were stacked together.  The teacher back at college mentioned something about it too.
Reply:Can I type something here???Seems to be a bit of bickering yet again... Whats going on here everyone?Sure we all have our ways and means...Now we are getting false statements that can't be backed up...Jeeze..This used to be only related to me..This is spreading..NO GOOD!!!We all need to sit back..Myself included and take a deep breath and CALM DOWN!!!  Ok we have reached a point where everyone's right..But we're all wrong on approach..Myself included..This is and still is the best interactive site on the net and we should all try to keep it that way..Myself included...The deterioation has to stop..Yes this is "Father Figure zap" doing what we need to do and that is to stop all the crap.."Father figure"Yeah right... Keep your eyes and ears open..You never know what will fly up your A$$Be nice..Myself included.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou never know what will fly up your A$$Myself included..
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyI remember seeing oxidation on stainless and aluminum when they were stacked together.  The teacher back at college mentioned something about it too.
Reply:Originally Posted by phila.renewal(...stuff about corrosion)
Reply:PS: Zap, I'm not bickering (I don't think anyway).
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderBoyAnd who was it saying you can't learn from this forum?  I just learned something right now!
Reply:Back on topic!So is the reason why the two twisted filler materials won't work right is because they don't properly blend together?  Will the weld end up looking like marble with the two fillers swirling randomly?  The idea I get is that it will become more like carbon in cast iron.  Piece here piece there instead of how steel has carbon distributed on an atomic level evenly to give it the maximum benefits.Is that about right?