My traiker project...and questions on axle position

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I recently picked up a small jon boat trailer, which had been converted over to a utility trailer by the previous owner.  I'd actually been looking for an axle to build a small utility trailer when this one fell in my lap, and I couldn't pass on the deal.  It is all channel on the frame, with 2" box on the tongue.  It has fenders, working lights, tongue dolly, and even bearing buddies on the hubs.Now, the previous owner did a little "customization" on the trailer in order to haul two ATVs.  Basically, in order to achieve a 4x8' floor space, he added roughly 2.5-3' to the rear.  He made this out of channel, and welded it to the existing frame.  Problem is, either fit up was incorrect, or it began to sag.  I believe the fit was poor, and he simply welded it on an angle (and couldn't tell without the floor in place).  Here is a pic of what I mean:So, the first thing I had to do was cut the added portion out and straighten things up.  I used a cutting wheel on a 4.5" grinder, and then commenced to fixing the added metal. To do this, I ran a 3/16" piece of 3x3" angle (22" long) to support the addition.  After confirming it was straight with my trusty 4' level, I welded it up with my 180a MIG using flux core.  I welded all the seems on the angle/frame support, and now the rear addition is considerably stronger.  I've also removed the plywood top, as it wasn't treated and is considerably heavier than the wire mesh floor I am replacing it with.  I have a considerable amount of work left to do, including making a gate/ramp with expanded metal, building the license plate and brake light frames, making a spare tire carrier, building sides, shortening the tongue just a bit, adding safety chains, and painting.  I'm also going to add a few additional braces across the frame of the trailer to support the wire mesh flooring.  Here are my questions.  First and foremost, as you can tell from the pics, the axle is now too far forward.  I know that too much rearward weight behind the axle can lead to handling issues.  My question is, as long as I properly position the weight over and ahead of the axle, is there any reason to move it back on the trailer?  Now, what I can do now is simply cut the forward mounting shackle (that the leaf spring bolts to), reweld a new on to the rear, and still use the existing lip for the leaf spring in the picture.  But, as long as the weight is positioned correctly, is there any reason to do this?  The trailer will only be used to haul a lawn mower or four wheeler occasionally, so the max weight will be less than 6-700lbs.  Oh, as you can see in the pic, the springs are on top of the axle.  I have all ready changed this, and moved the springs to under the axle to lower the height of the trailer.Also, how much can I shorten the tongue without running in to any unforeseen issues?  I would like to cut it back basically just far enough to leave enough room to mount the new ball coupler, and move the dolly to one of the angles.  Any thing I'm missing please let me know as I am open to suggestions.  Thanks!Last edited by Jason280; 07-06-2009 at 03:47 AM.
Reply:Oops, title should read "trailer project", and now I can't edit it...
Reply:Originally Posted by Jason280Oops, title should read "trailer project", and now I can't edit it...
Reply:If the trailer is to stay loaded all the time with the same load, with 10 - 15 % of the total gvw for tongue weight, you might be OK. Trouble is, it looks as though it won't have enough weight on the tongue to handle properly without a load (empty). And if you plan on carrying different loads, you're going to have trouble. Moving the axle would be easy. Go buy some new spring hangar hardware, instead of trying to move/save the old stuff.As a general rule, the axle should never be forward of the centerline of the cargo area of the trailer. The 2/3rd's rule is a good guideline, but doesn't work all the time. I have a factory built 18 foot 6 ton trailer used to haul a 50 horsepower tractor with a 6 foot bush hog. The tractor practically fills the trailer from end to end, so there's no room to adjust the weight bias. The trailer was built on the 2/3rd's rule, and with it loaded, there is about a 20% tongue load, which is way too heavy. Empty, the load on the tongue is about 15%. I plan on moving the axles forward till I have about a 10% load empty. Hopefully that will put me closer to a 15% load with the equipment on board.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:Why don't you extend the deck forward? That way you will have plenty of room to move your load and get the weight distribution right.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com
Reply:The axle placement point is not based on a 2/3 figure.A 2/3 amount would work out to 33.3% to the rear x 66.6% to the front.You want a 60/40 balance with 60% in front of the axle and 40% to the rear based on the actual bed "Not including the tongue"You could cut some of that tongue away, I can't tell by just a picture of it, but I usually make my tongues about 3.5 to 4 feet in front of the bed for small trailers like that!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Heres a site with a good example of how to properly place the axle!http://www.championtrailers.com/UTIL...AILER_KITS.HTM#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Hey, that's a great site link Ken.  I have often wondered how you calculate for dual axles.  They seem to have some nice parts too.It's not what you can buy, it's what you can build.
Reply:"The axle placement point is not based on a 2/3 figure.A 2/3 amount would work out to 33.3% to the rear x 66.6% to the front."Which is exactly how the manufacturer built my trailer.Which is why I need to change it. 60/40 sounds much better.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:Originally Posted by bratkid63"The axle placement point is not based on a 2/3 figure.A 2/3 amount would work out to 33.3% to the rear x 66.6% to the front."Which is exactly how the manufacturer built my trailer.Which is why I need to change it. 60/40 sounds much better.
Reply:You're absolutely right about that. Years ago I worked for a construction equipment rental company. One day I loaded a Bobcat onto a trailer the wrong way (engine to the rear), and took off down US1. I made it up to about 50MPH, when the excitement started. The trailer started wagging it's tail, and trying to slow down didn't do any good. It got so bad it spun the entire rig 180 degrees. Fortunately, through sheer luck I managed to stay in my 2 lanes, the trailer leading the way, me screaming like a little girl still traveling 50MPH, backwards. I think I was about 21 at the time. I managed to pull off the road after I came to a stop and cleaned the doo doo out of my pants, reloaded the Bobcat the right way, and learned the value of proper trailer loading.I plan on installing a tongue mounted toolbox and possibly a 10,000 LB winch on my trailer, so I definately need to move the axles to compensate. After further contemplation, I think the reason the manufacturer put the axles so far back was possibly to offset the weight of the folding ramps at the rear of the trailer, but they went too far with them.To the OP, I agree with the suggestion to add some more deck area to the front part of the trailer instead of moving the axle. You might as well take advantage of the tongue length you have.Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC (Sold)Miller Dialarc 250HFMiller MM251Miller MM200 (Sold)Miller MM130Miller Spot WelderVictor O/A rigMiller Spoolmatic 1 (Sold)
Reply:I always make the tongue longer than needed.  That way I can haul longer steel.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Originally Posted by joethemechanicWhy don't you extend the deck forward? That way you will have plenty of room to move your load and get the weight distribution right.