Lombardini / 10K HF Generator Build

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Some may recall the Boat Trailer-to-Generator Trailer conversion project thread http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=23083T from this summer which has had to take a back seat to more important issues but is still very much alive.With that said, I didn't elaborate but in a nut shell the engine was briefly described in that thread as follows:"It's a 'recycled' Lombardini 2-cylinder diesel that once drove a direct coupled water pump and is now going to drive a 10K HF belt drive unit. The Lombo was a freebee!  Just had to get it running which only took a couple Saturdays."The engine / pump unit was mounted on a 6" channel and plate 32 gallon fuel cell skid with two sections of 12" channel serving as the engine mount and fork truck lift points.  The overall skid dimensions are 32"W x 48"L x 6"H with 'tank' dimensions of 28" x 45" x 6".  The original engine / pump mounting was along the centerline of the 48" length but being belt driven the new mounting is going to be with the engine and generator side-by-side to allow having the controls for both on the same side next to each other for ease of operation.More as we go but here's some photos of the work my son (Mike) and I did yesterday.  As usual, I'll be posting more than the maximum 5 photos so there'll be a second post following this starter.Starting from the bottom, the original 3/8" thick skid pads were removed to allow installation of 2" x 3" x 1/4" angles for mounting to the trailer frame.  The 48" long skid will be mounted across the 48" wide trailer with the 3" angle leg being bolted to the frame sharing the suspension and fender mounting bolts.Of course the Powermax 350 was used to cut the welds which went quite smoothly.  A few blows with a 3# Up and Down Wrench and cold chisel and the pads were history.Mike worked on grinding off the remaining weld from the base while I worked on the 12" channels with the PM 350.The top of the fuel skid prior to the channelectomy.  Engine was mounted to the left section with the right section serving as a hand primer mount (3 holes) and fork lifting point.  The threaded pads on the 'upper' inside edge of each channel were the original battery tray mounts.The first 12" channel removed.  The combined thickness of the channel leg and fillet weld really pushed the limits of the PM 350 on the maximum 25A setting as material thickness was a solid 3/8" and approaching 1/2" on the ends due to inside as well as outside beads.  The Marquette Star Jet 21-110 which is temporarily without gas would have made shorter work of the 12" channels and even though I didn't time it, I estimate it took approximately 4 minutes a leg which is pretty much in line with the PM 350 cut speed for 3/8" mild steel.Stand by for post #2.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Post #2.Temporary 'mock-up' with engine resting on 3" x 4" x 1/4" tubing that will be sized for new engine mounts and welded to top of fuel skid similar to the original 12" channels.  Remaining 12" channel welds still need to be cleaned off but this front view shows how engine and generator controls will wind up side-by-side and will be toward rear of trailer for easy access.The 'backside' showing the three groove drive/driven pulleys and new battery placement.  Fuel pick-up and return lines will run under and be protected by the engine.  Two groove pulleys are the recommended but three groove were selected for longer belt wear.  Drive pulley ratio is designed to run engine at peak torque and maximum fuel efficiency speed of approximately 2600rpm while turning the generator at the required 3600rpm.  The mock-up channel under the generator will be replaced by an adjustable slider type mount for proper belt adjustment.  A new vertical exhaust is also in the plans.More later and thanks for looking.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:The Freebie King is at it againAre you a little nervous about welding on the tank.  It's gonna put a lot more heat into the metal than cutting did.  It's gonna get red hot on the backside of anything you're welding to."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Duane, sounds like an interesting project!  What are the hp and torque specs on the motor and where did you pick up the belt drive gen?  How much for the Gen?Here is what I have so Far:Miller:Shop Master 300 A A/C D/CS 22a Wire FeederRFC-14 Tig PedalHF-251D High Freq. UnitProfax 250 A Mig GunVictor RegulatorsHarris:63-2 torch Cutting Attachment 49-3making home built tig cooler
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThe Freebie King is at it againAre you a little nervous about welding on the tank.  It's gonna put a lot more heat into the metal than cutting did.  It's gonna get red hot on the backside of anything you're welding to.
Reply:Originally Posted by 1NormyDuane, sounds like an interesting project!  What are the hp and torque specs on the motor and where did you pick up the belt drive gen?  How much for the Gen?
Reply:I hope it's safe.The lo pro tank is kind of cool.  Where is the fuel draw position inside the tank?"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI hope it's safe.The lo pro tank is kind of cool.  Where is the fuel draw position inside the tank?
Reply:That ought to work out good.  Just tilt the trailer so the fuel goes to that corner of the tank when it runs low.If you're gonna blow yerself up, just remember me in your will.  I could be forced to get used to blue paint (it might go good with red)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:This is interesting Duane. Are you building this just to have it around or is something waiting for it.What is the motor from?
Reply:Originally Posted by BurnitThis is interesting Duane. Are you building this just to have it around or is something waiting for it.What is the motor from?
Reply:Interesting Duane. I'll be following this thread to see how the generator does when you get everything fitted and running the way you intend for it to be. Started to get one of those H.F generators once but the engine for it I didn't have, after looking at the specs on the generator that is. Be safe while welding on that ok.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Threw together the generator half of the mount yesterday evening and here's some shots of how it went together.Two shots of the 2"x2"x1/4" mount end angles and beginning of mount frame.  Mounting bolt holes were located to line up with factory mounting holes in generator end housings.Completed mount frame with adjuster bolts fabricated from threaded studs (not all-thread) and nuts by plug welding nuts to end of studs.  Nuts under 'thrust' washers are jam nuts.Adjuster nuts were welded to adjuster bolt side of frame rather than back side to allow for an extra 3/4" overall adjustment travel.Back side of mount frame showing ends of adjuster bolts that can pass threw frame cross angle as belt tension is adjusted.Mount will sit on two stationary like sized angles running perpendicular to and welded to engine 3"x4"x1/4" mount tube once in place on the fuel skid.  3"x4"x1/4" angle iron on end of stationary mount will serve as adjuster bolts anchor.  Mount frame side angles still need to be drilled for bolts that will secure generator to fixed mount angles and thread into nuts welded to inside of generator mount frame side angles.  Fixed mount angles off engine mount tube will be slotted to allow adjustment travel.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Mount will sit on two stationary like sized angles running perpendicular to and welded to engine 3"x4"x1/4" mount tube once in place on the fuel skid. 3"x4"x1/4" angle iron on end of stationary mount will serve as adjuster bolts anchor. Mount frame side angles still need to be drilled for bolts that will secure generator to fixed mount angles and thread into nuts welded to inside of generator mount frame side angles. Fixed mount angles off engine mount tube will be slotted to allow adjustment travel.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyLooking fine so far. I think I'm following the adjustment concept here. I'm kind of assuming you'll end up with some kind of 'easy access' clamp down arrangement as the final step of any adjustment. By that I mean there will be some bolts that you will snug down to make the generator solid after adjusting the belt tight? Where's the panel going to be? Battery area?
Reply:Well I got to working on the Lombardini / generator project again today.  Put the Powermax 350 and 4-1/2" grinder to work and got the rest of the old channel iron mounts cut/ground off the fuel tank.  New engine mount crossmembers built and ready to weld on.  Made one 68" long 3"x4"x1/4" out of three smaller lenghts to make the two 32" long crowwmembers needed as I didn't want to cut up two 54" pieces.  The plan is to get them in place tomorrow and get the bottom half of the generator mount done as well.  Maybe even get the battery mount done as well.Close up of the engine mount bolt hole and nut access in side of 3"x4"x1/4" tube.  Holes cut with PM350 after 'marking' with holesaw.Engine positioned on new mount crossmembers.Generator in general intended location in relationship to engine.  It will actually sit higher as the mount will be located off the side of the engine mount crossmember flush with the top edge.  Should have pictures tomorrow as my discription leaves alot to be desired.  Going to be fabricating a new exhaust as well before it's done so it won't be pointing down at the belts and generator.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Could you just reverse the exhaust manifold?  Or are the bolt patterns different?Looks interesting nonethelessMarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:The discharge elbow could be turned up but the muffler is rusted out.  I'm planning on using the existing inlet exhaust pipes to build a 'Y' and going up with it.  I suppose I could turn it into a 'Muffler Repair' thread instead of an 'Exhaust Header Build' couldn't I?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Looks good, I am guessing you already know generator horse power requirement vs eng hp output. And fuel consumption at rated output. Do you care to share? How are you going to regulate engine speed? My brother just built a 10kw gen set with a old 250 ford eng. He is not satisfied with eng fuel consumption and is also looking to go diesel. Keep us posted. How is your Cat coming?Peter
Reply:You gonna end up with any rubber anywhere in the engine mounting?
Reply:Peter,In a perfect world 746watts/HP or 1.34HP/1KW.  Typical 'match-ups' are 1.5-1.8HP/1KW and well designed units will utilize a driver that achieves at or near maximum fuel efficiency at or near generator speed of 1800 or 3600rpm which ever it is.  In my case it's an 3600rpm generator and a driver that tops out at 3200 with maximum fuel efficiency around 2300rpm.  I'm using a 1:1.5 pulley ratio to yield an engine speed of 2400rpm at the required generator speed of 3600.  At that 2400rpm it has a continuous rating of 21HP which is a 2.1HP/1KW overkill but it was a freebee and I couldn't find a bigger 12-15KW two-beaing generator before starting the project.Here's the engine curve from post #6 http://weldingweb.com/attachment.php...4&d=1230505354The Lambo has a variable speed governor with a lock on the control lever so once engine speed is set for proper frequency it will be locked down and let the governor do what it's designed to do.  There's a seperate shut-down lever to kill it without disturbing the throttle setting.Cat project is on hold but I keep thinking 'road trip to Eunice'.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyYou gonna end up with any rubber anywhere in the engine mounting?
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Yeah Sandy, they're there but I just didn't include them in the fit-up today.
Reply:Great build!  Just wondering why you went through the trouble of knocking off the mounting pads from the underside?  Those could have been some good mounting points for welding on some casters.  Just curious, I'm sure you had a reason.
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingGreat build!  Just wondering why you went through the trouble of knocking off the mounting pads from the underside?  Those could have been some good mounting points for welding on some casters.  Just curious, I'm sure you had a reason.See?  I knew you had a good reason...
Reply:Here's what I got done today.Working on the base of the generator mount - making the anchor bolt adjustment slots.Base angles with adjustment slots and generator mount pre-assembled.Generator mount and base all welded in place to the tank and engine mount crossmember.Close-up of welds that were tough to do as I had to deal with either glasses or inside of hood fogging up from the humidity today or backglare in my hood.  Was practically welding almost by sound alone at times.Sandy, there's your rubber pads under the engine mounts.  These were originally under the engine with the previous 12" channel mount arrangement.Stand by for more photos in next post.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:More photos. . .Generator and belt pulleys aligned.Battery 'tray' welded up on opposite side.Battery temporarily installed and waiting on hold-down.  Judy had smoked serloin steaks ready for dinner and if you've ever had Judy's cooking - you'd drop what you're doing too.PLAY TIME!!!Thanks for looking.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Nice build!How about mounting a piston pump on it too, and you'll have a generator/power washer?!! When you get down to the final pulley alignment, instead of a straight edge, use a string over the edge of the pulleys, you'll be able to dial it in perfect.Good Luck
Reply:Good deal Duane.  Looks like it will be a good standby genny for you.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:PLAY TIME!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyHey, that's one smooth running outfit with those rubber pads on there.
Reply:Are you not going to use the battery box or is it just not there for the mock up?  I ask since the tray doesn't look big enough to accommodate it.MikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:Originally Posted by BrinkAre you not going to use the battery box or is it just not there for the mock up?  I ask since the tray doesn't look big enough to accommodate it.
Reply:Not with a patented Brinks Semi-lethal Security System installed . . . . good point though.MikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:Nice job.  I can't believe how smooth that engine runs!
Reply:Nice job on the jennyrator duaneb55!Looks like that should put out enough power to keep you busy durring outages.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Before going any further, we ran a function test on the unit.  Although I know what length belts are needed I haven't picked them up yet and 'Brink' noticed the alternator belt for the 3406 Cat hanging on the engine and. . . well our test was off and running.  Had 3200watts of lights and 1500w heater plus whatever the fan and grinder could add.Wanted the best test possible with what I have for a load so I brought in Brink to fire things off while I ran the camera.  Now I just need to finish the fab work - trailer mounts, battery hold down, fuel filter mount and belt guard - before tearing it down for blasting and paint.Thanks for looking.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Hey Duane....  I was wondering how you figured out the pulley sizes and how it effects the output of the generator.  Is there a formula, or was it trial and error, or just dumb luck?  Thanks!
Reply:Originally Posted by JC'sWeldingHey Duane....  I was wondering how you figured out the pulley sizes and how it effects the output of the generator.  Is there a formula, or was it trial and error, or just dumb luck?  Thanks!
Reply:Tell you what...  When it comes time for my build, I'll PM you the details and we'll work it out together.  Seems kind of complicated.
Reply:Good deal!Nice test run video.Did you have a chance to check for heat build-up?I wonder if the generator has a bidirectional cooling fan?Good Luck
Reply:I mis-calculated the wattage in my previous post denrep.  The total was approximately 3300 with the 1500watt heater.  A friend of mine from work came over in the afternoon with his 'loads' and we got the total up to 6825watts and ran it for about 10 minutes with no problems.  Even the single belt was barely warm to the touch.  Held a steady 117volts at 60Hz.The fan is non-directional and the generator housing was warm but far from hot as would be expected.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:MAN has this been a long project!Got some more done on Sunday.  Built the fuel skid-to-frame mounts, packed the wheel bearings and reassembled the axle, replaced the spring bushings, put the suspension back in place and mounted the skid to the trailer frame.  Also broke down and finally bought a TSC tool box for equipment/supplies storage to mount in front of the fuel skid on the trailer frame.Still need to:Build new exhaustBuild grate material (freebe scrap) rear step behind fuel skidBuild tail light mountsMount tool boxBuild belt guardMount fuel filterDisassemble and blast fuel skidPaint frame and skidReassemble with new tires/wheelsWire lights????. . .It looks odd and I haven't weighed it yet but current estimate puts approximately 10-12% on the tongue with a full tank of fuel.No doubt I'll have more invested in this in time than I could ever get out of it so it'll have to be with me 'til the end!MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Let's all hope that that is a long, long timeMikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:[QUOTE=duaneb55;290651]MAN has this been a long project!Still need to:Build new exhaustBuild grate material (freebe scrap) rear step behind fuel skidBuild tail light mountsMount tool boxBuild belt guardMount fuel filterDisassemble and blast fuel skidPaint frame and skidReassemble with new tires/wheelsWire lights????. . .QUOTE]Still need to:Bean can (rain cap) on exhaust.
Reply:No need really since it's still kept in the shop (just rolled it out for the photo shoot) but I've been trying to convince him to put a "flapper" on the new exhaust he builds for it.MikeConstans Fides et IntegritasLincoln Weldanpower 150 ACAirco Aircomatic MIGet CAV II w/ spoolgunMillermatic 30a wirefeeder
Reply:you do great work
Reply:It was calculated JC.- Generator (driven) speed = 3600rpm- Desired/required engine (drive) speed = 2400rpm- Divide driven speed by drive speed = 1.5 or a 1:1.5 increase ratio- Determine driven pulley pitch diameter (based on specific belt group to be used)- Multiply driven pulley pitch diameter by increase ratio of 1.5 to determine ideal larger drive pulley pitch diameter- Select drive pulley closest to calculated pulley pitch diameterOr you can go the other way if you already know the drive pulley pitch diameter and divide that by the increase ratio to obtain the required driven pulley pitch diameter.Make sure calculations are based on the pitch diameter dimension for the specific belt group being used. Different belt groups result in different pitch diameters (thus ratios) for the same pulleys.I hope that answers your question.MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 3Syncrowave 180 SDRoughneck 2EAircomatic MIGet CAV IIHypertherm Powermax 350Marquette 'Star Jet' 21-110WC-1S / Spoolmatic 1Weeping Weldanpower 150allternative energy
Reply:You can use the grid as a load bank. Just don't tell the power company I said that. :/You sync with light bulbs in series across the open switch. You want to use 4 120V bulbs foe 240 V hook up.When you are close to sync, the bulbs will be slowly rolling on and off. When you get them to stay dark for "a bit" you close the switch.Then you adjust your governor with an amp meter until you get it up to full load.Oh and don't do this. I never never never would do a thing such as I describedLast edited by joethemechanic; 07-09-2009 at 08:16 AM.Joewww.CummingsHauling.com