Gota Problem With My Ball (phase 2)

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Post Partum anxietyI have an old lifting fixture I built when I made my front end loader for the Allis(sweet Allis).  It saw use again today after being dug out of the weeds where it's resided for around 7 years.  It's designed to be able to lift a variety of loads, and balance the lift point to keep everything level.Gently lift, pull forward to keep swinging stuff away from the cab, then the final lift to clear all obstructions, and drive out from under it.  Sounds pretty straightforward but it's full of nervous moments  (I love that little crane)Unless you're very patient, and stop to LOOK every few seconds, this is really a 2 man job.  Many chains and come alongs to control yaw, which could have been done by one man on the ground with one hand on the bed as it liftedHad I built the bed and hitch, it would have been done differently.  The bed would have been designed to fit around a hitch plate attached directly to the frame.As it is, the bed was designed with an integral hitch, and the crossmembers are in the wrong place to build a frame attached hitch.  I'm not going to rebuild the bed.While a dedicated plate hitch would be nice (Like Tanglediver mentioned), due to the location of the crossmembers, and what they support it's impossible to build a plate with reinforcement members on the top side.  Additionally, it's impossible to build the plate with reinforcement on the bottom side because it would interfere with the placement of the exhaust pipes as they go over the rear end.  If the frame of the truck were flat, like most new ones, where it goes over the rear end it would be another story.So the plan is to drop the pocket 5"-6", add material under the crossmembers to carry the load out to the truck frame, and tie into the frame in a very solid manner.  In addition, there will have to be braces to transfer the fore and aft forces to the floor plate.  The floorplate is a very efficient web to take the stress of pulling and pushing.  The farther you drop below the bed, the more critical it becomes to transfer the shear back up to the bed.  The trailer ball becomes a lever the farther below the bed it is.The two main forces we're dealing with are vertical loading (tongue weight), and horizontal shear (actually pulling the trailer, and stopping it).Da metal manglin' starts in the morning Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Oh yeah, the same as with clamps.............You can never own enough binder chainI think I have somewhere around 15 chains 5/16 and 3/8 grade 70.  Dont' even think of lifting with the ungraded crap they sell at the big box stores or Harbor Freight.  Buy US made grade 70.  Each link will carry the grade stamp"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So looking down at the frame rails, differential, fuel tank and such, where does the existing ball pocket set in relation to all those?  My guees is that recess between the tank and rear end.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandySo looking down at the frame rails, differential, fuel tank and such, where does the existing ball pocket set in relation to all those?  My guees is that recess between the tank and rear end.
Reply:Sandy, from the cut tabs in picts 3 and 4, looks like it sat right on top of or just in front of the rear axle, the usual spot for one.My guess is that the bed can drop until it sits on the bent sub frame. I think on our truck that required about 2 1/2" spacers at the front and rear of the "hump".
Reply:Bed height is a fixed factor.  Any lower, and there's no room for travel on the springs.Oh, and here's another nice little deal.  The bed's too narrow.  When the springs compress the tires hit the outside of the bed.  Fender wells are in order too."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWSandy, from the cut tabs in picts 3 and 4, looks like it sat right on top of or just in front of the rear axle, the usual spot for one.My guess is that the bed can drop until it sits on the bent sub frame. I think on our truck that required about 2 1/2" spacers at the front and rear of the "hump".
Reply:If it was me, I would move it forward to just behind the U-joint on the pinion.  That way, no limit to the travel by the center of the pumpkin.  Moving it forward will transfer a little bit of weight toward the front tires, but not much.  Would expect less than 5%.If you move it behind the pumpkin, think leverage on the frame.  Might make the truck ride nicer, but all the trailer weight would be on the rear suspension.  A bit on the front is a good thing.How about a channel down the center of the bed leading to the ball pit?  Something that would hinge up & be out of the way as you backed the truck under the tongue?  Just an idea that might help with a lower ball mount.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Sandy and Mark.......The ball is positioned correctly as it's built now.  It's approximately 6" ahead of the centerline of the rear end.  That allows some weight transfer to the front axle, and makes for good pulling.The GVWR ratings on this truck are 4000 front axle, and 7000 rear axle.  I can't find a TARE WEIGHT anywhere on the door placard, but it can't be much heavier than the Dodge considering the Dodge is FWD (live front axle and transfer case). Dodge scaled at a little under 6000.I would imagine that you could get by plopping around 4000 on the tongue of a gooseneck with this truck.  It's not like the modern trucks, but I imagine it will hold it's own under a load(power went out here for near an hour)"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Samm,,  I have a 91, with 7.3, five speed, no AC.  Somewhat heavier bed with a rack.  Tare is approximately 7200 or so.
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310Samm,,  I have a 91, with 7.3, five speed, no AC.  Somewhat heavier bed with a rack.  Tare is approximately 7200 or so.
Reply:Actually if you want to be technical you shouldn't be lifting anything with gr. 70 chains.  Their for securement of cargo only.    Lifting chains should be Gr.80. Gr.100.   As of yet I don't think the new high zoot Gr.120 chains have been approved by osha for overhead lifting applicationsYou had that rigged good enough I don't think I would have thought twice about lifting that bed like that.Just something to throw out there as I have to wear a "propeller hat" and be the responsible one at work.Depending on how long the tail is on the truck I IDEALY like to keep the gooseneck ball C/L 6"-8" ahead of the C/L of the rear axle.    That's the thing one of the things that makes the gooseneck so much better than a tag trailer could ever be, the fact that you can load the steer axle a bit to really make towing safer.While you have the bed off I would go ahead and put check valves in the top of the fuel tank and gut the insides of the fuel filler hose.   Makes fueling so much easier.    I wish I would have done that before I had the bed mounted on my 85.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2If it was me, I would move it forward to just behind the U-joint on the pinion.  That way, no limit to the travel by the center of the pumpkin.  Moving it forward will transfer a little bit of weight toward the front tires, but not much.  Would expect less than 5%.If you move it behind the pumpkin, think leverage on the frame.  Might make the truck ride nicer, but all the trailer weight would be on the rear suspension.  A bit on the front is a good thing.How about a channel down the center of the bed leading to the ball pit?  Something that would hinge up & be out of the way as you backed the truck under the tongue?  Just an idea that might help with a lower ball mount.
Reply:I've got a question.  I'm trying to figure out how the hitch is too high.  We've got 2 tandem dual goosnecks, a Belshe goosneck backhoe trailer, and I've also pulled a 24' and 32' goosneck stock trailers with my '96 Dodge flatbed.  The hitch looks to be similar to mine (my bed is a J&I bed), and my Dodge is a 4X4 with the factory lift blocks under the back and 255-85R16 tires (which are close to 33" tall.  And all my trailers pull very close to level with this setup.  Here's an example. Attached Images
Reply:Please understand, I'm not saying you're wrong in any way.  I'm just trying to understand the situation a little better.