beam splice

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what would the procedure be for splicing I-beam?Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Depends... In construction they are often simply spliced with a plate on the web and bolts. They can do this because the engineer finds the spot on the beam that has neutral forces and all you have to do is keep the two pieces in position because there is little or no load on the beam at that point. A splice at a high load location would be a different matter. Most likely it would be a full penetration weld that would need to be beveled, and may or may not need reinforcing depending on what the engineer decides..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Here's how I normally do a full pen splice on a beam. Cut two birds mouth / windows in the web so the backing plate for the flanges can go right through. In most cases this has to be approved by the engineer of record! Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sorry for the late follow-up..  We ended up getting approval from the engineers to splice the twin beams. The photos of the prep are before I hit them with a grinder. Fortunately, all the welds went off with out a hitch. Here's how it turned out: Attached ImagesCommon sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:What's the flat bar for? alignment maybe? Used bar for a D1.1 test before, but field welds were open root.I have spliced many monorails and I have done it many different ways depending on the engineers spec's.Just to name a few methods:1) Most were either Double or Single bevel and weld only. (double= both beams beveled, single= 1 beam beveled, other left square)2) Welded only the web w/ a bolt on splice plate on the web.3) Welded 100% w/ a welded fish plate on the web.4) Welded only the top and half the web as the bottom half was hardened.5) No weld w/ only a bolt on splice plate on the web.6) No weld w/ a welded fish plate on the web.I'm sure I have done many other methods, but those are the ones that come to mind atm.Edit: Welding rod spec'd was either 6010 root; 7018 cap or 7018 all the way out.Last edited by skelley521; 10-29-2011 at 11:55 AM.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:They called out for full pen with backer bar to be U.T. The V somewhere around 60 degree with a 1/8" to 3/16" root opening.Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom.
Reply:Do you remove the backing bar and do any further welding/grinding or do you leave it?The ones I've done with 6010 root/ 7018 cap were done by welding out one side then grinding out the 6010 and 7018 out the back.I know not all engineers are right and have worked with some good and bad ones.I was always taught that the web was not to be a load bearing point and not to weld across the flange.To understand you really need to see what we were dealing with.I got a set of prints from one engineer that had a load bearing monorail welded to the web of both upright beams and the beams stood upright on top/across the flange of another beam. Nothing tied to upright together at the top either. His dad was a Iron Worker and I asked him if his dad designed this junk...lol.I took the prints to my CWI and he said that he would call him to discuss the issue.The results: CWI said I was correct, but since the engineer spec'd it, it was on his shoulders.He made copies and filed the prints to cover our arse.One of the Millwrights in my gang was a engineer and went to school with that guy.He said he was a idiot and that if he and another guy didn't help him that he wouldn't have graduated.Last edited by skelley521; 10-29-2011 at 12:44 PM.Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Originally Posted by skelley521I got a set of prints from one engineer that had a load bearing monorail welded to the web of both upright beams and the beams stood upright on top/across the flange of another beam. Nothing tied to upright together at the top either. His dad was a Iron Worker and I asked him if his dad designed this junk...lol.I took the prints to my CWI and he said that he would call him to discuss the issue.The results: CWI said I was correct, but since the engineer spec'd it, it was on his shoulders.He made copies and filed the prints to cover our arse.One of the Millwrights in my gang was a engineer and went to school with that guy.He said he was a idiot and that if he and another guy didn't help him that he wouldn't have graduated.
Reply:Very true, I was just concerned since I have a lot of friends that work in plant maintenance there.I did talk him into going back and beefing the beams up and bracing them also.Hopefully he learned something Semper FiJesus may have been a Carpenter, but his dad was a Millwright" A grinder and a can of paint, will make a welder what he aint' "I've done so much, with so little, for so long, that now I can do anything with nothing!
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPBut yet he had the PE stamp!
Reply:Originally Posted by Mooney1elNot necessarily.  I have had many college graduate engineers who did not take the PE testing and thus did not have the certification.  Most didn't need it in the automotive business though.  My step son has the PE and folks are calling on him a lot to certify their designs, but he takes the job seriously and won't approve junk.
Reply:Hi we use 1/2x1 back up or double bevel and back gouge. Rat holes should be ground using a quarter as a template and do not tie together intersecting welds they create stress risers.All bridges use welded splices and we sub arc most of them. Johl
Reply:You are probably right.  I just have seen so many prints without the certification or with suspect certification that unless I am familiar with the engineer, I challenge everything.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mooney1elunless I am familiar with the engineer, I challenge everything.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIn my experience, if the drawing is stamped, and you don't have a stamp, (I don't) you're wasting your breath. About the only thing I ever got out of our engineering department, is “how would you build / rig this?” Otherwise they don't even want to hear me flapping my lips.