Need some mig help please

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I am having a heard time dialing in my welder for doing tube. Its an SP-250. I had my voltage set around 19.6 volts and wire was 305 in/min. Its .120 wall tube. I cannot get it down though please give some pointers if you can.    I was trying to free hand them and wrap around the tube and not touch anything to stabilize myself, it shows. It doesnt seem to weld quite right, its sputters a bit and the weld seems to get away from me, like I have a hard time controlling it.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Looks and sounds like its a little hot.  I would weave to spread out the heat. How far is your stick out?  Should be about 3/8".  There should be almost no spatter, this is what makes me think too much stick out.  Also could be too much voltage.  What gas are you using?  Flow rate?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:To much voltage.  On a practice piece --- set the voltage to 16/17 and run the wire to fast, until it hits bottom and then back off.  should be no spatter and should be the correct voltage, dont worry about the amperage.  JohnSMAW,GMAW,FCAW,GTAW,SAW,PAC/PAW/OFCand Shielding Gases.  There all here. :
Reply:what shield gas are you using?ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:wow your right.. i went to 17.5 volts and 340 in/min. My gas is c/25 and 20 cfh.   I know its still not optimum I just dont know how to adjust accordingly and its hard to notch tube and practice on it, plus I am using the 3 buck a foot tube HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Another thing I notice is when I am standing up I cant weld at all! I keep swaying around and stuff. Ahh I think im gonna be ok now this is such a relief that I have started to figure it out a bit better I have been pretty upset about this lately.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:practice on some thing cheaper David..... LOOKING BETTERReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:My tip is just barely peaking out of the little shield. Now it seems the problem is eliminating that cold lap. I started with the gun on one side of the tube and it looked like garbage, but once i pulled over it flowed much better. I think its the angle of the gun but I dont know how to do it all at once. How much do people move when they weld say 180 degrees of a tube in one shot?? hats alot of movement and stay steady!!!   This is .095 wall tube, 16.5 volt and 340 in/min.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:whiel standing, try using your non-trigger hand to create a steady-ing point between the gun and the work... i use my right hand to pull the trigger... i tend to use my pinky to touch the piece and my thumb and/or other fingers to steady the gun. it helps alot. the only time that i don;t do this is when i'm WAY out of position (hard to be out of posistion with flux-core) or i am laying quick tacks and holding the work together with my left hand. as far as practicing, try to stand and lay some straight, consistant beads on some scrape plate. it'll save you some cash, rather than using that solid gold tube that you are using now.hope that helps...Later,Andy
Reply:Thats the thing when I plant my finger I have a hard time picking it up and dragging it around the tube. Flat plate isnt really a problem, its the tube welds that get tricky. I think alot of it is getting the machine dialed in.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:wow your before and after pics are night and day!  before welding feel it out, pretend you are running the bead along the joint and plan it out, if you feel you must  start on one foot and then by the end of it the weight is ont he other foot, or if there is an obstical you must weld past you can plan for all of it, and that goes for welding anything. good job so far!Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I mean I have been welding for a while I just was having a hell of a time figuring out my new machine. I am used to using little wleders where id have them maxed out blowing circuit breakers and stuff. Tube welding is a whole different ball game it seems. I need a little more practice and I think ill be getting there. I still am unsure about wire and voltage adjustments though...HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Fordman,It looks like your deposition is still pretty thick and you are on the verge of getting a bunch of cold lap.When I do that kind of work, I use Short Circuit Transfer and a slower WFS.  A good basic setting that I use and then fine tune is 16.5 Volts and 175 IPM.  This matches up your voltage & wire feed fairly close....It slows things down a little so you can concentrate on ensuring good fusion without the weld deposit running you over.  You should be able to weave slightly to ensure proper fusion to both pieces of tubing, while still being able to feel your way around the joint.When I am welding on stock car chassis' I brace myself up as much as possible with my free hand, and try to position myself so that I can weld over 180 degrees before having to move again.  Whenever possible, I have a finger out touching the tubing, so I can follow the contour without thinking about it.  I do not "rest" my hand on my finger, just use it as a guide.Hope it helps.Later,Jason
Reply:I'll give you some of my basic settings that you can use as a baseline, then adjust for your own preference..035" ER70S-6 Hard Wire & C25 or C8 gas blend.Short Circuit Transfer:16.5Volts, 175 IPM19.5Volts, 225 IPMGlobular Transfer:23.5Volts 325-350 IPMSpray Arc Transfer:28.5Volts, 525-550 IPMwhen I have .045" wire on, I drop the Globular & Spray Arc settings by 100 IPM.Should get you in the ballpark.As always........Opinions Vary......This works for me.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanAnother thing I notice is when I am standing up I cant weld at all! I keep swaying around and stuff. Ahh I think im gonna be ok now this is such a relief that I have started to figure it out a bit better I have been pretty upset about this lately.
Reply:You are seeing vast improvements from the first pics. From the first pics, the light brown dusting and the excess spatter suggests a wire speed that is too low for your heat setting. Looks like your settings are pretty much dialed in now. As suggested by others, minimize your stick out and keep it consistent and try to get as comfortable as possible. Always use your free hand for stabilization and with your gun hand try to keep the distance between your shoulder and wrist as short as possible. What I mean is to pull your elbow in tight to your body...by doing this your control is much better. Another thing...before you drop the helmet and hit the trigger ...have an idea of where you would like to start and finish the bead and try a dry run to see if you have the range of movement.All in all, it looks like you're doing good...welding these round joints is no easy task for a beginner...looking good. Try and concentrate on your starts and stops...always better to stop on a start as opposed to start on a stop...run a little past the stop and linger so that you get complete fusion. A little extra time ensuring a good fit up....goes along way toward the finished product. You're well on your way...now it's all about time behind the helmet. Good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfI'll give you some of my basic settings that you can use as a baseline, then adjust for your own preference..035" ER70S-6 Hard Wire & C25 or C8 gas blend.Short Circuit Transfer:16.5Volts, 175 IPM19.5Volts, 225 IPMGlobular Transfer:23.5Volts 325-350 IPMSpray Arc Transfer:28.5Volts, 525-550 IPMwhen I have .045" wire on, I drop the Globular & Spray Arc settings by 100 IPM.Should get you in the ballpark.As always........Opinions Vary......This works for me.
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanI am having a heard time dialing in my welder for doing tube. Its an SP-250. I had my voltage set around 19.6 volts and wire was 305 in/min. Its .120 wall tube. I cannot get it down though please give some pointers if you can.    I was trying to free hand them and wrap around the tube and not touch anything to stabilize myself, it shows. It doesnt seem to weld quite right, its sputters a bit and the weld seems to get away from me, like I have a hard time controlling it.
Reply:Maybe I should try those settings, I have a bit but not too much.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I've been following this thread as I want to build a tire rack for my car trailer over the winter.  My plans are to use 1.5" exhaust pipe which is (or should be) 16 gauge/ .120 wall thickness.   I want this as light as possible so I don't anymore weight than I have to at the front of the trailer.  The wheels/tires will weigh about 220 lbs as it is.I have a ProMig 140 and right now and only .035 fluxcore wire.  Should I go with the recommended settings for 16 gauge metal on the machines label?  I haven't really thought about getting a tank of C25 but would that make things easier/better??Would square tube work any better as an alternative for the load?
Reply:Originally Posted by c4cruiserI've been following this thread as I want to build a tire rack for my car trailer over the winter.  My plans are to use 1.5" exhaust pipe which is (or should be) 16 gauge/ .120 wall thickness.   I want this as light as possible so I don't anymore weight than I have to at the front of the trailer.  The wheels/tires will weigh about 220 lbs as it is.I have a ProMig 140 and right now and only .035 fluxcore wire.  Should I go with the recommended settings for 16 gauge metal on the machines label?  I haven't really thought about getting a tank of C25 but would that make things easier/better??Would square tube work any better as an alternative for the load?
Reply:The rack will only be 53" wide, 17" deep and there will be a center support so I'm not too worried about the load of the tires.  I had already designed some bracing into the rack.I originally thought about angle but I think the weight would be more than the 1.5" pipe.  Square tube would save me from notching and fitting the round pipe, it's just that I can get the exhaust pipe though my shop at cost.
Reply:Originally Posted by c4cruiserI originally thought about angle but I think the weight would be more than the 1.5" pipe.  Square tube would save me from notching and fitting the round pipe, it's just that I can get the exhaust pipe though my shop at cost.
Reply:Originally Posted by fordmanSir you kind of lost me on all the transfers. I dont really know much about them. Whats weird is I get pretty good with the stick welder doing tube, I thought mig was going to make my life easier.
Reply:there should be a sticky post in the "MIG, TIG, Stick And Oxy/Fuel Welding" forum section... i think it;s the third one from the top... take a look... it explains the 3 types with a couple videos... great post.Later,AndyOriginally Posted by fordmanSir you kind of lost me on all the transfers. I dont really know much about them. Whats weird is I get pretty good with the stick welder doing tube, I thought mig was going to make my life easier.
Reply:ohhhh. i was welding and i was getting some odd hissing noice and I guess it was that last transfer method. Now tell mw is there a strength difference in the weld? appearance? Or is it all weld preference??HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Basically what you're doing is selecting the rate of deposition.  Short Circuit Transfer is the slowest, with the most passes and most total heat input to produce a specified weld bead.  This works well for light gauge and vertical up welds, the bead is "slower" and easier to control.Globular Transfer is next "fastest" method, major drawback is that globs of molten metal are dropped onto surface, so spatter is an issue at higher voltages. This method is the least desirable.Spray Arc Transfer has the highest rate of deposition so it is the "fastest" in this example.  When done correctly, even though is is "hotter", Spray Arc will have the least amount of passes and lowest TOTAL heat input into a joint to produce a specified weld bead.The only way to increase your depostion rate over Spray Arc Transfer with GMAW hard wire is to switch over to FCAW cored wires which have even higher deposition rates. I use Spray Arc quite a bit because the higher deposition rates help increase overall joint efficiency and cut down on welding time.Pay close attention to the arc....When you have achieved True Spray Arc, you'll be able to see the pinch point and a small spray cone as the molten metal is sprayed onto the surface or into the joint.  Without getting in to surface tension of the metal and all the techno stuff, to be able to make the transition from Globular to Spray Arc Transfer, you'll require a minimum of 85% Argon in your shielding gas, so either C-25 or C-8 etc up to & including Pure Argon.  If you are using less than 85% Argon, you won't have the pinch point and spray cone, you'll just be long arc-ing in Globular Transfer, and not only will you hear the difference, you'll have lots of spatter everywhere.Take the time to do some research into the modes of transfer...It's worth it to you to learn it and understand it.Hope it helps.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by aczellerwhiel standing, try using your non-trigger hand to create a steady-ing point between the gun and the work... i use my right hand to pull the trigger... i tend to use my pinky to touch the piece and my thumb and/or other fingers to steady the gun. it helps alot. the only time that i don;t do this is when i'm WAY out of position (hard to be out of posistion with flux-core) or i am laying quick tacks and holding the work together with my left hand. as far as practicing, try to stand and lay some straight, consistant beads on some scrape plate. it'll save you some cash, rather than using that solid gold tube that you are using now.hope that helps...Later,Andy
Reply:so my wire speed seemed to have been way to high.. im just used to having like 1-10 thats why i feel so lost haha.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by c4cruiserI've been following this thread as I want to build a tire rack for my car trailer over the winter.  My plans are to use 1.5" exhaust pipe which is (or should be) 16 gauge/ .120 wall thickness.   I want this as light as possible so I don't anymore weight than I have to at the front of the trailer.  The wheels/tires will weigh about 220 lbs as it is.I have a ProMig 140 and right now and only .035 fluxcore wire.  Should I go with the recommended settings for 16 gauge metal on the machines label?  I haven't really thought about getting a tank of C25 but would that make things easier/better??Would square tube work any better as an alternative for the load?
Reply:Fordman,I know how you feel trying to weld tubing with MIG.  I was working on a roll cage and decided to go TIG because there is more control and you know when you have good penetration because you are melting the base metal and then adding filler.My first attempt on 7/8" round tubing with TIG turnd out way better than all my MIG attempts and I have full penetration all the way around the tube.My personal opnion when welding tube with MIG has to be the hardest thing to learn because you have to go with the flow, with TIG you can take your time and if needed, stop and retart without a cold start or even seeing where you stopped.Now I use TIG for everything so I can just to keep in pratice.  I will still use MIG when I need to run quick and I am not welding tube.Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:I am still have issues. The problem is I know if I went and used this old millermatic 90 I learned on I could weld 10x better. I picked up an esab 220 and welded something ona  trailer and just welded a perfect bead. This welder just doesnt seem to do it for me and I am getting really upset. Especially when I have 1000 into this machine...HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I figured eh ill pick up the old stick welder. havent used it in months  6011 on some old miller machine i picked up for 100$. Its got one of the crank dials and everything... I had a hard time running 7018 on my machine, even the ac version... I trust my stick welds over my mig any day. Sure that one doesnt look perfect in appearance, dont know if I have ever seen a "pretty" 6011 weld, but I know its a sound weld.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:For 6011, that's great. The comfort level shows! Everything you've gone through is all part of the learning curve. Don't give up now! Go with about 17.5 volts and with a piece of flat scrap plate, try running a bead one handed, while keeping your freehand on the wire speed knob. Run a basic bead but pay CLOSE attention to the sound. Listen for the smoothest highest pitch sound possible as you turn the knob back and forth. This should balance wire speed and voltage together. Any change in voltage requires a change in wire speed to regain balance. When I discovered this for myself, I played around with the machine for a while at all the different tap voltages that we typically use. What I found out was that for every voltage tap, there is a very narrow range of "workable" wire speeds. Now on the mm200 we have at work, I can set up the machine before I even begin a job and 9 out of 10 times need no further adjustment.It will come with time.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:My gun has a button on it so I can adjust wire speed or voltage on the fly. I was welding with the miller 90 today and my welds looked better than my lincoln.. ONce I get some time I am going to figure it out. I can weld flat plate pretty good, I just cant get the sound "right". Do you have a ballpark number for wire speed??? Like around 200? 250? Less?? I tried 180 like someone said and it just didnt feel right.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:17.5 volts, C/25 gas, 160 to 200 ipm if you are using .035.  I have some .030 in the wire feeder, I will try today and see where I end up.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yeah but flat plate and welding a piece of notched tube shouldnt be the same setting. It welds flat plate fine but when I try and weld tube the weld just falls all over the place, and looks disgusting. What a joke I... am using .030 wire.HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Today I ran .030 on some heavy plate.  Using 92/8, I had it on 17 volts and 250 ipm.  I turned it up to 300 and 17.5.  You could probably add a volt to that for C/25.  I also had it on 31 volts and 550 ipm spraying I didn't use C/25 today because I was doing a job.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.