aerator from h**l

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Over the years, I have assisted, mainly welding, in the fabrication of various aerators. recently, a local landscaper ask if I could build him an aerator to tow behind his z-turn mower.I replied sure, and then agreed to take half payment in cash, the other in services. I was warned by a friend who built one about the aggravation  involved but chose to ignore him. Presently, after a many design alterations, the aerator still does not want to sink to an expectable depth and pull plugs. Any secrets out there? I've taken a few phone pics, not very clear. Attached ImagesMiller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:The only thing that looks different from the one I had rented a few years back is the tubes. The length appears to be the same as does the o/d...but. The plug has to go the complete length of the tube to be ejected by the next plug, the one I had the tube was cut at a slash only 3-4" from the end so the total enclosed length looked a lot less than yours. Yours might be open but it's hard to tell.The tube was a relatively thin wall because I rememeber thinking it would bend.What would happen if you offset the tubes so they don't try to enter the ground at the same time? As it is now you would have less concentrated force entering the ground as they're all supporting the weight at the same time.Is the end of the pipe cut at an angle if so is it turned the correct way in relation the the direction of travel?Last thought, instead of having the tubes come off the centerline of the pipe what about tangent to the centerline.....Mike
Reply:All the aerators I've seen were self-propelled, not tow behind.  They all had the plug cutters mounted on a large drum, filled with some kind of weight; water I assume.  I think part of the secret to their function lies in 2 design features:1 - The weight of the machine's engine and drum drive the plug cutters into the soil.2 - The plug cutters were the drive mechanism for the machine, not the wheels.  The cutters were spaced so that each cutter pulled the machine forward, and the next cutter in-line was pulled down into the ground by the cutter currently buried in the top soil.So, with the tow-behind unit, I think you're going to have to rely on added weight to get the plug cutters to penetrate into the soil.  You could try to engineer some kind of drag or brake, to cause the cutters to plow down into the turf, but I think it'll be a very difficult design to get working.You might consider staggering the plug cutters so that 8 are not all trying to punch into the ground at the same time.  Offset each 'wheel' by 20-30 degrees, so that the weight of the machine is carried by fewer plug cutters.  This should increase the pressure on those cutters and drive them further into the ground....Just some ideas....Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Tow behind aerators have to have weight on top, to get the plugs into the ground.Your frame on top looks about right.  Depending on the size and soil, you might want 150-300lbs of weight on there.It looks like your tubes are open in the middle.  You might want to put a wedge near the back of the opening, to get the plugs to eject, but if your problem is just not sinking in, then start with adding weight first.
Reply:The basic problem that you are having is that the plugs are hitting the ground all at one time, thereby distributing the weight of the unit across the entire length.  The plugs should be off set equally from in a spiral pattern to allow only one plug to be making penetrating contact at a time. A well designed rotor tiller uses the same concept.Also, these type plug aerators only go a couple of inches deep any way.  Any deeper and the times will break off.  The deeply penetrating aerators have spike or v shape tines, or rotating knives.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Ooh, good point.  Actually, to keep things from bouncing all over, you probably want two plugs to hit at the same time, each one, the same distance from the center.so instead of all 6 plugs:xxxxxxmaybex----x--xx---x--x-
Reply:I don't like to admit this.  But in another life, I used to own a landscape company.  We did an extensive amount of aerating.  The rule of thumb with any aerator is 20 lbs per inch of width.  I still have my 60" mill creek.  Which weights 1250lbs and pulls a nice 2.5" plug in wet soil.  Plus what lugweld and rlitman said is your other problem.  Having all 6 tines hitting at onces, leaves to much surface contact area.  So you get very low ground pressure.  AKA no penatration of the surface.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Lots of good suggestions. Thanks all. I agree with the staggered tine idea, makes a lot of since. The problem with that is I built this with 4 independent  shafts, each bay has it  own  . I did this to allow more manuverability. The best I could do is to off set the two spike banks form each other in each bay.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Wagin.I am afraid that it won't be enough, unless you mount a bulldozer on top for weight.  Only one finger needs to be in penetrating contact with the ground at one time or as your friend warned you it won't work. You'll need to do some cutting and rewelding if you want to get this thing to do the job the guy paid for it to do.Offsetting also allows the unit to turn and pivot with out destroying the tines.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:something i was looking at when you mentioned the 4 separate banks of tines...try to follow my logic in this thinking for a sec...if the four separate banks roll individually, is the "flat spot" from one or more of them, keeping the tines from penetrating the soil deep enough?...look at the photos and you might see what i'm talking about...as one or two or even three try to sink into the soil, is one of them sitting "flat spotted" on its rolling diameter and preventing them from penetrating?...since i know jack sh_t about landscaping and designs for aerators, maybe a round mount for the tines with offset plug cutters instead of an octagonal one might work a little better so it doesn't sit on a "flat spot" between the cutters...just my $.02 and observation
Reply:Originally Posted by waginLots of good suggestions. Thanks all. I agree with the staggered tine idea, makes a lot of since. The problem with that is I built this with 4 independent  shafts, each bay has it  own  . I did this to allow more manuverability. The best I could do is to off set the two spike banks form each other in each bay.
Reply:Proper aeration requires a certain distance between spikes.  He has the distance correct.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Lugweld's right on the money.  You can't have good penetration by spreading the weight out.  Multiple cutters hitting the ground at the same time distributes the weight to efficiently, thus no penetration.I never use aerorators, but If I can recall, the ones I've seen have the cutters arranged around a barrel in a spiral pattern.  I might be wrong.Any implement that doesn't rely on suction to hold it in the ground, or penetrate the ground, is solely reliant on weight on the individual cutting edge.Disc plows, disc harrows, offset discs are mostly rated by lbs of down pressure per disc.  This type of equipment mainly relies on weight, rather than suction to penetrate the ground.  Same with your plug cutter."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by mrmikeyThe only thing that looks different from the one I had rented a few years back is the tubes. The length appears to be the same as does the o/d...but. The plug has to go the complete length of the tube to be ejected by the next plug, the one I had the tube was cut at a slash only 3-4" from the end so the total enclosed length looked a lot less than yours. Yours might be open but it's hard to tell.The tube was a relatively thin wall because I rememeber thinking it would bend.What would happen if you offset the tubes so they don't try to enter the ground at the same time? As it is now you would have less concentrated force entering the ground as they're all supporting the weight at the same time.Is the end of the pipe cut at an angle if so is it turned the correct way in relation the the direction of travel?Last thought, instead of having the tubes come off the centerline of the pipe what about tangent to the centerline.....Mike
Reply:Hope it works for you. Still think you're going to have to offset the tines as well so they enter the ground at different times so the point load is higher. Keeping my fingers crossed......Mike
Reply:after reconfiguration of the tines to a tangent, the aerator plowed deeper and the customer is very happy. He has since brought three more smaller jobs my way.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Glad it worked out for you.....Mike