Tranny Pan Drain

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On the way back from the Flight 93 Remembrance Ceremony, the tranny in our MH started to slip when shifting from 2nd to 3rd.  I've got an idea I'm in for a torque converter replacement.  However, NASCAR racing at Dover next week.  I've paid for the 3 races, and camping at the track.  Decided to change the fluid and filter and see if I can get there and back (240 miles round trip).  First I drained the converter, then comes the pan.  No plug.  Get out the air chisel, choose the point tool and sharpen it to a nice point, puncture a hole in the pan where there's a place for a drain plug.  I cut a 55 gal drum down to 11" and had it under the chisel, allowed it to completely empty.  Then flushed the tranny cooler by disconnected both lines at the tranny and blowing out with 20 PSI compressed air.  Short of tearing down the tranny, this removes most of the old fluid.  I picked up a fine thread drain plug at Advance Auto Parts today, stopped by the hardware store and picked up a 1/2" fine grade 8 nut.  I cleaned the pan well (grinding), ground off the coating on the nut, and brazed it with high strength brazing rod (100,000 PSI tensile).  Put the pan back on, poured in 2 quarts of fluid, checked for any leaks, then refilled the tranny.  Final step was to spray on 2 heavy coats of primer. Attached Images
Reply:nice job!!    hope you make it to the race!Daye
Reply:Nice, I've done the "nut thing" on many auto engine pans w/stripped threads. Just weld nut over existing stripped hole.Peter
Reply:i would get AAA  for that trip its like $50 for a rva year i got it before a trip one time and blow a head gasket made it there and was able to enjoy my two weeks off and then theytowed it home if the trany fluid smeltburt theres nothing you can do other thanrebuild it or get a new one
Reply:Nice job, Pa !! Hope she makes that round trip for ya. As said I'd get some good towing insurance. I've done the same thing on my auto trans except I use a black iron 1/8" pipe coupling w/ an 1/8" brass plug and I put it on the back of pan next to the bottom so it can't get torn off making contact w/ something that doesn't move easily enough. I've always figured something like that hanging down is just an invitation for Murphy !!!!                                     MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofusNice job, Pa !! Hope she makes that round trip for ya. As said I'd get some good towing insurance. I've done the same thing on my auto trans except I use a black iron 1/8" pipe coupling w/ an 1/8" brass plug and I put it on the back of pan next to the bottom so it can't get torn off making contact w/ something that doesn't move easily enough. I've always figured something like that hanging down is just an invitation for Murphy !!!!                                     Mike
Reply:Nice mod PA.Unfortunately, I doubt that a converter would cause engine flare on shifts; it's more likely clutch slip.How much jewelry and clutch material was caked in the pan?Good LuckBy the way - What is a triple disc converter?  Originally Posted by paweldor. . .Going to install a triple disc torque converter after the trip.
Reply:heat is a problem in any heavy duty application, i would have welded up some kick outs on the pan or made it deeper for more capacity. i also welded up my stock pan the same way as well by the way, i think i used the same plug too.syncrowave 180 sd
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepNice mod PA.Unfortunately, I doubt that a converter would cause engine flare on shifts; it's more likely clutch slip.How much jewelry and clutch material was caked in the pan?Good LuckBy the way - What is a triple disc converter?
Reply:Originally Posted by paweldorI was surprised how clean the pan was.  No metal shavings at all.  Just some minute stuff on the magnet. Talked with a couple of rebuilders on the problem.  Almost guaranteed it's the converter clutch disc going.  A Triple disc converter is just that.  Has 3 clutch discs instead of the usual 1.  Some racing application have more. They also use a heavier plate on the converter to absorb and dissipate heat better.   The problem with engine revving between 2nd & 3rd was the disc was slipping.  Doesn't help that I also used O/D on long flat roads while towing a car.  Not good for the Ford E4OD tranny.  I'm getting an education on automatic transmission and torque converters with this project.
Reply:Originally Posted by paweldorI was surprised how clean the pan was.  No metal shavings at all.  Just some minute stuff on the magnet. Talked with a couple of rebuilders on the problem.  Almost guaranteed it's the converter clutch disc going.  A Triple disc converter is just that.  Has 3 clutch discs instead of the usual 1.  Some racing application have more. They also use a heavier plate on the converter to absorb and dissipate heat better.   The problem with engine revving between 2nd & 3rd was the disc was slipping.  Doesn't help that I also used O/D on long flat roads while towing a car.  Not good for the Ford E4OD tranny.  I'm getting an education on automatic transmission and torque converters with this project.
Reply:That's the E4od for you.  hard to believe its even remotely related to the 4R100.Biggest stacked plate Trans cooler you can find PERIOD.  i use a B&M 29K GVW on my 93 F-450.  It also needs a new torque converter soon.  sounds like yours is a 94-99 unit.  Upgraded TCM programing keeps that problem from flashing the OD light and going into limp home mode.  It sounds like you have an E-series Motorhome with a 460.when you rebuild the trans get a 4wd transmission pan and filter from your ford dealer holds an extra couple of quarts and has a drain plug built in.Next time you need to flush the trans Drain the trans pan and refill with 6qts of ATF. just pull the rear cooler line of the trans and slip a clear piece of hose over it and run it into a bucket.  Start the truck and let the Pump run till you see air bubbles in the line dump in 7 quarts and repeat.  takes about 15 quarts to flush an E4OD.   Cheep and easy way to get all the fluid flushed out with new fluid.ALSO the E4OD its VERY sensitive to fluid formulations.   MERCON/ DextronIII ONLY.   Ford No longer licence's the Mercon formulation and will tell you that MERCON V is ok to run in it.  There WRONG these transmissions do not handle the Mercon V well.I have started using Chevron MD3 in ALL of my E4OD's and 4R100's.   The MD3 stands for Mercon Dexron 3.   Since ford doesn't licence the formula anymore they have had to resort to calling the fluid MD3.Get it from your local chevron distributor i can get 36 quarts of it for under 100 bucks.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I only used Mercon fluid in the trans.  Here's a copied and pasted article from Goerend Transmission:For a standard duty application we like to start with a low stall triple disc converter that will keep the engine in its torque range of about 1700-2200 rpm. Put another way, the upgraded converter will have the engine working at about 500-800 rpm lower than a stock converter. The stock converter usually lets the engine rev to 2300-2800 rpm, which is past its peak power rpm. On a 24 valve Cummins Turbo Diesel with the "Common Rail" system this torque range will be slightly higher.In order to understand the benefits of this upgrade it is important to know how a torque converter works:Torque Converter BasicsLet’s start with 2 wall fans facing each other:If we turn one fan on the wind from this fan will make the other fan turn, although much slower than the "drive" fan. In the case of a torque converter, the drive fan is bolted to the engine and the fan being driven is connected to the input shaft of the transmission. In addition a oil is used to transmit the energy between the two fans, as opposed to air in the example scenario.When stationary (such as at a stop sign), with the trans in gear and the engine at idle, the drive fan is spinning so slow that it will not "blow" enough oil at the driven fan to make it turn. As the engine speed is increased the drive fan blows more oil at the driven fan and the driven fan starts to turn and moves the vehicle.This important concept is commonly referred to as "fluid coupling".The drive fan will always turn a little faster than the driven fan, just like the wall fans. If you were to stick a feather, or straw, into the driven fan blades it would slow the driven fan down but not the drive fan. In a real application this is just like pulling a heavier trailer, the straw in the driven fan is essentially adding a load.Torque Converter Lock-upOnce the truck is up to speed there is a mechanism, called a lock up clutch, that will "lock" the fans together. In actuality the driven fan is "locked" to the front cover of the torque converter, which is bolted to the engine. When this occurs the drive fan and driven fan turn at the same rpm, with no loss of power in the fluid coupling.When the drive and driven fan are not locked together, heat is generated in the converter. The greater the load and rpm difference, the greater the heat generated. This heat is essentially lost power which results in a lower transmission life, performance and fuel economy.The loss of energy in this process can be calculated: suppose we have a converter where the drive fan (impeller) is turning 2500 rpm and the driven fan (turbine) is turning 1800 rpm. The efficiency of this converter, at this speed, is 72% (1800 divided by 2500). The efficiency is constantly varying, depending on the rpm of the converter, the power input to the converter and the output load, or towed weight. When the converter clutch locks the fans together, the engine rpm will drop 700 rpm.If we use a converter that is more efficient, such as a "low stall" converter we will be able to achieve a higher efficiency rate. For example, an 88%, efficiency rate would mean that the impeller would be turning 2500 rpm and the turbine would be turning 2200 rpm. When the converter clutch locks the turbine to the front cover we would only see a rpm drop of 300 rpm, as opposed to 700 rpm.A lower rpm drop is substantially easier on the converter’s clutch lining and will reduce glazing. In addition, because the fluid coupling of the converter is more efficient, more power, less heat and better fuel economy are delivered before the converter locks up.Torque Converter Stall SpeedsTo explain "stall speed", let’s start with a true full stall. If the transmission were in drive, the brakes were held down (so the vehicle will not move) and the throttle was held "wide open" the torque converter will "stall" the engine at a certain rpm. When "stalled" the engine will not be able to spin any faster unless the vehicle is allowed to move. This is a true full stall. We have specialized equipment which is used to perform this test.DO NOT TEST FOR TRUE STALL, IT CAN DAMAGE SHAFTS AND OVERHEAT THE TORQUE CONVERTER!The next stall speed is generally called "break away" stall speed. If a truck is stopped on a hill and held in position using light throttle as opposed to brakes we are almost at the "break away" stall speed. If the engine rpm required to "hold" the truck was 1100 rpm and an increase to 1125 rpm started to move the truck then the "break away" stall speed is 1125 rpm.The last stall speed is generally referred to as the "flash stall" speed. The flash stall speed takes effect under hard acceleration. If, from a standing start, you were to "floor" the throttle the engine would start to accelerate quickly and then pause at an rpm is it starts to pull the truck. If the engine went from idle to 1500 rpm in 1.5 seconds when floored and then took another 2 or 3 seconds to get from 1500 to 1700 rpm, this would mean the "flash stall" speed was at 1500 rpm. When we lower the stall we want to lower the break away speed as well as the flash stall speed. This will make the engine work at a lower rpm for a given road speed and, in most cases, will increase fuel mileage.Once up to speed, the computer will command the lock up clutch "on", and the driven fan will lock to the front cover of the converter. At this point the drive, driven fan and engine are turning the same speed which means all engine power will be delivered to the transmission and back to the wheels.Upgrading Your Stock ConverterIn a stock torque converter, the clutch has 1 clutch plate with about 37 square inches of clutch lining. At Goerend Transmission we like to use 3 clutch surfaces that total about 105 square inches of lining, we call this a triple disc converter. This triple disc will hold dramatically more torque than a single disc.The cost of this triple disc torque converter is $1295.00.This converter has an unconditional lifetime warranty. If the transmission was to fail or the input shaft broke and the converter needed to be replaced- you pay for the cost of freight only. The warranty does not cover loss of use, time, towing, installation or per diem damages. Cost of a 100,000 mile warranty converter is $1050.00. It would cost approximately one half of this amount to rebuild this converter if it was ruined by a transmission failure or a broken input shaft.
Reply:Last time I checked goerend was dodge shop do they sell t/c?
Reply:Originally Posted by BlindViperLast time I checked goerend was dodge shop do they sell t/c?
Reply:Even though i am in southern md let me know if you need some rebuilt help
Reply:Originally Posted by BlindViperEven though i am in southern md let me know if you need some rebuilt help
Reply:Well do be honest with you if its not the converter which I think it is. Doing a rebuild (just replacing whats damaged) is not a good option as it only lasted 37k. There are plenty upgrades to help the trans.