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I am in the (long) process of deciding what machine to get, for home use, only on steel -- if I ever need to do any aluminum, I'll rent something. I'm pretty convinced that I don't need any pulse options, or any auto-sequencing - at least it will be a while before I miss them, if ever. I'm not sure about HF start, though - if I go with a machine that has the "lift-arc" style starting, will that limit me in any particular ways? The only machine I have used did have HF start, and it seemed to work well, but I am not sure if it is worth the extra $$. Thanks for any opinions.Tim
Reply:Never used the lift arc setting or scratch started my Dynasty... but have used scratch on a regular CC machine. Worked every time.I doubt it'll limit ya... after all, how did weldors do it for so many years before someone got bored and invented HF start?
Reply:If i didnt have high frequencyt start I would miss it. If it was a money thing and I couldnt afford it. I would definitely miss it.My small tig has a high voltage starter instead of a high frequency. Works the same.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by papasloanIf i didnt have high frequencyt start I would miss it.
Reply:Tim, the HF start is nice, but I worked without it on my maxstar welder for quite a while, and it wasn't a big deal.Sometimes, you'd wish for it. But most times, I didn't really care.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloTim, the HF start is nice, but I worked without it on my maxstar welder for quite a while, and it wasn't a big deal.Sometimes, you'd wish for it. But most times, I didn't really care.
Reply:32 years with the boilermakers working in the field on new construction and maintenance replacing old tubes. I have never used or even seen a hf or amptrol on the job. Lift arc is just starting to appear as companies start leasing XMT's. Can't remember the last time someone was called for a tungsten inclusion, they will allow the odd spot on pressure work. On a restricted access joint you would start your arc in a more open area and walk your torch to the tough spot. Gives you a chance to bail out if conditions aren't right. One of the schools we train/test at uses the CST-280s and they work fine for tig and stick cap. This would apply to .125"-.375" wall thickness as don't usually work on thinner stuff.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimSThanks - but why would you wish for it? I can understand that HF start would be a little easier - for example, if you break the arc, you can just restart quickly, where with touch-start you'd have to let off the pedal, touch the electrode, wait a second or two, mash the pedal, then lift & go. Is there something else you had in mind though?Tim
Reply:Lift start is great. It has some benefits. If you are in an area that you can't use an amptrol (foot pedal) you can still start the arc. I did a bunch of tig welding with my Lincoln V350 (days) and lift start worked great. My ranger 250 has lift start also. It works. As long as you are only using steel, no problem. My arcmaster 185 has both lift and a High voltage start. I do use the high voltage, but lift or touch start is just fine. I would go for more power and don't look back.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Hf start comes in handy on small irregular shaped pieces that you have to hold in position to tack. Touch start could move them. Larger pieces are not a problem.I use lift start when working on motorcycles with electronics. I use Hf on every thing else. Its easier to start the arc.I dont have to use it. Just makes life a little easier.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimSI am in the (long) process of deciding what machine to get, for home use, only on steel -- if I ever need to do any aluminum, I'll rent something. I'm pretty convinced that I don't need any pulse options, or any auto-sequencing - at least it will be a while before I miss them, if ever. I'm not sure about HF start, though - if I go with a machine that has the "lift-arc" style starting, will that limit me in any particular ways? The only machine I have used did have HF start, and it seemed to work well, but I am not sure if it is worth the extra $$. Thanks for any opinions.Tim
Reply:Once again, Billy, you are full of yoru own BS!Some of the fussiest stainless welding is sanitary welding on SS food service tubing. I've spent some time working beside a dairy piping crew and they didn't use HF for any of it. Just so you know, these are backpurged, full penetration welds with no way to visually inspect or do any repairs on the backside of the weld. They strung regular old welding leads to where they were working, wheeled in a bottle and went at it with a TIG torch. This is standard provedure for that work.I also watched a guy welding food service counters in a college cafeteria. He was using a Lincoln AC/DC "Buzz Box" and scratch starting. These welds were ground and polished afterwards to match the finish of the stainless sheets the counters were fabricated from.I was involved in fabricating several SS fermenting tanks for an ethanol plant. They were all done with scratch start TIG.Take your flaming BS to another arena. You aren't old enough to have all the experience you claim. All you are is another worthless internet troll who enjoys the attention he gets from the drivel he posts.Moderators/Administrators,, why is this knothead still here?
Reply:His profile from another forum states he's only 42. I think that's funny.John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:BillyBlow strikes once again! Take your BS elsewhere.
Reply:I have used lift start for DAYS in a row welding heat exchangers. I had no problems contaminating the tungsten or the welds. Mr. McCormick, you are the only one that had trouble using it. Perhaps you were not doing it right?DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks for everyone's opinion - I appreciate it. I guess I would sum up the discussion as "HF start makes things slightly easier in certain situations, but is not a 'must have' feature."As I was reviewing the power ratings of the 2 machines again, it also occurred to me that for anything with more oomph than the 200SD, I'd probably want to be at least considering a water-cooled torch - that's a bit more expense / complexity than I really want to bite off. So maybe that helps with the decision a bit too.OK, now back to my internal debate about going brand name vs Chinese combo box for about 1/3 the price. Thanks again for everyone's help!Tim
Reply:If you do much tigging, you will have a water cooled torch. I could use one length of 1/8" filler at max amps on my arcmaster 185 then put the torch down. Steel or aluminum.get what you like, its going to be around for a long time.DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:TimS, there's a lot of TIGing done in the field with air cooled torches. For what it's worth, and keep in mind that I have not done a lot of it myself, I'm looking at some sort of TIG rig for here at home and when I make the move it will be with an air cooled torch.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrHigh frequency has been around before World War Two in Tig Machines. And is always used for quality welding. I have lift or break started the arc in straight polarity DC TIG with pure argon. And it caused the tungsten to deform. It made for poor welds actually on nice stainless steel sheet metal. It kind of defeats the purpose of TIG to be honest with you. I will use it if I have nothing else, while I am on the road though. You can do it, for a few pieces. Anything more and it is frustrating. You have to grind the tungsten all the time. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by TimSI guess I would sum up the discussion as "HF start makes things slightly easier in certain situations, but is not a 'must have' feature."Tim
Reply:idk if its enough to influence a purchasing decision lift arc isn't bad but scratch start contaminates alot of tungsten which over time could be very expensive. its seems like not too much but it adds up especially if dress your tungsten well.
Reply:Lift start is different than scratch start. Scratch start is just that, like a piece of 6010/7018. Lift start senses when you break the initial contact to make the tungsten hot.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:i use a dry rig in the field with scratch start to weld sanitary stainless pipe it is 100% x ray and have never had a problem caused by scratch start or tungsten inclusion and this is food grade pipe, im new here but this william mc cormick guy is kinda annoying isnt he
Reply:Originally Posted by TimSThe reason I am asking is that two machines I am considering are the Miller 200SD and the CST-280. The CST has significantly more juice and is slightly less money, but it does not have HF start.Tim
Reply:Originally Posted by ChamferTrodeKeep in mind if you go with the CST, it doesn't have a solenoid for gas, so it's one more thing to remember, "turn on gas.....turn off gas" gets spendy if you forget (ruined tungstens, wasted argon), and time consuming (cleaning the weldment that you 'welded' without sheild.This is all really funny.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThis is all really funny.. ...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by scubaholici use a dry rig in the field with scratch start to weld sanitary stainless pipe it is 100% x ray and have never had a problem caused by scratch start or tungsten inclusion and this is food grade pipe, im new here but this william mc cormick guy is kinda annoying isnt he
Reply:Oh I'm sorry..I should have included this as to the reason I think this is funny.. Originally Posted by William McCormick JrYou would want High Frequency. Everytime you lift off you get a tiny pit in the tungsten. If you are doing small thin stainless steel sheet you would want the cleanest smoothest pointed tungsten you can get. High frequency has been around before World War Two in Tig Machines. And is always used for quality welding. I have lift or break started the arc in straight polarity DC TIG with pure argon. And it caused the tungsten to deform. It made for poor welds actually on nice stainless steel sheet metal. It kind of defeats the purpose of TIG to be honest with you. I will use it if I have nothing else, while I am on the road though. You can do it, for a few pieces. Anything more and it is frustrating. You have to grind the tungsten all the time. Sincerely, William McCormick |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:04:13