Cast Iron Welding

admin

Internal hinge broke on the inside top lid on a Vermont castings wood stove. I should use nickel rod to weld the piece back on. Not even sure of the exact damage - only talked to the friend over the phone. From what I understand the piece is about 3/4 inch wide - 1 1/2 inch long - very basic hinge type. Any preheat/prep. suggestions? ThanksDo you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?
Reply:I'd heat it up a little..200 degrees maybe..Weld with what you have..Let cool by its self and you should be good to go.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichInternal hinge broke on the inside top lid on a Vermont castings wood stove. I should use nickel rod to weld the piece back on. Not even sure of the exact damage - only talked to the friend over the phone. From what I understand the piece is about 3/4 inch wide - 1 1/2 inch long - very basic hinge type. Any preheat/prep. suggestions? Thanks
Reply:That may be whats in print but in this case?Its a hinge not a furnace..I'd just heat it a little and go for it..Been there done that..Way too many times..But if you need red hot then by all means..To each their own.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat may be whats in print but in this case?Its a hinge not a furnace..I'd just heat it a little and go for it..Been there done that..Way too many times..But if you need red hot then by all means..To each their own.....zap!
Reply:http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=18291Also you want to allow as long as possible for the cooling to take place after welding.Also since this is an internal hinge and has been subjected to heat and a carburizing atmosphere.  The welding may be more difficult you may have to grind out you first weld and reweld it again as the even higher carbon may cause porosity in the first pass.good luck and let us know how the repair works.Ron ShopFloorTalk Millermatic 350P, M-25, M-40 gunsDynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, Crafter CS-310 TorchTrailblazer 302, 12RC, WC-2430A spoolgunSpectrum 2050Thermal Arc Plasma Welder PS-3000/WC-100B
Reply:Originally Posted by Shade Tree WelderThe basic procedure for welding Cast iron is preheat to 700-900°F.  This is a very dull red, basically just barely red.  I recommend welding it with 99% nickel rod that way you can grind or drill as needed, if you use 55% nickel you will only be able to grind it, not machining at all and if you use a basic cast iron rod you will not be able to even grind it.The high carbon present in the cast iron will create a very hard weld deposit with anything but 99% nickel rod.
Reply:weldgault, you tipping a few tonight, your responses tonight sure look like it.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by weldgaultRon, You can grind anything, if you have the correct wheel.   Tungsten carbide can be ground, so can any Cast iron.  John
Reply:Yup, the next sound you hear will be your work blowing itself apart and imbedding itself in places it ought not be.
Reply:looking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln.  It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer.  Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability.  The miller will accept single or three phase.  My dealer seems to have better service from Miller.  Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?
Reply:This post is totally off topic, but i have the lincoln V350.  Never used the Miller, sorry.  But the lincoln WILL take single or 3 phase.search for pulsed mig, I posted some pictures.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by kalloylooking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln.  It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer.  Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability.  The miller will accept single or three phase.  My dealer seems to have better service from Miller.  Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?
Reply:Originally Posted by kalloylooking to buy a new 350 pulse machine, either miller or Lincoln.  It seems it is hard to get an unbiased answer.  Some say the Lincoln has a more stable arc. The Lincoln has a few more features such as computer program plug in to update for future programs and DC tig capability.  The miller will accept single or three phase.  My dealer seems to have better service from Miller.  Has anyone tried the two side by side and and come up with a preference?
Reply:Originally Posted by Shade Tree WelderYes, I have.http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...ead.php?t=8257BTW, I assume you are new to the wonderfull new world of internet forums.  Typically you would start a new thread with a question like this versus "hyjacking" someone else's question.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettHey kalloy, Yes its poor "n"etiquette,But not nearly as bad as plugging your own forum in another in the guise of being helpful ?
Reply:I have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects! So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? haThanks,jakeDo you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichI have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects! So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? haThanks,jake
Reply:Listen to Shade Tree, use a 99Ni or at least a 55Ni, while Zapster may make pretty looking welds, welds are like women, a lot of the pretty ones have no substance. (believe me i know!) Preheat to >750 deg.. Slooooooow cool, I usually wrap in a FG weld blanket, then an old bed blanket. Some parts are still hot to the touch the next day.I've never had any success with steel rods, either SMAW or GTAW. They've always cracked.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettHey kalloy, Yes its poor "n"etiquette,But not nearly as bad as plugging your own forum in another in the guise of being helpful ?
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichI have an abundant supply of 7018, 6011 & 7014....should I just preheat, then weld with a traditional rod, or opt to buy 99% Nickel rods? Again, this is inside a wood stove for a garage/shop. The previous owner did not handle the stove very well, therefore the hinge snapped off. If the hinge broke as a result of internal casting defects...I would have just bought another lid. I just want the repair to be done right - would hate to have the weld come out with excessive defects! So................................99% Nickel rod or Traditonal SMAW rod (6011,7014,7018)???? THAT IS THE QUESTION???? haThanks,jake
Reply:Sounds to me like you are wanting to use a stick welder to make the repair....if so check Northern Tool (if close to you ) as they have Ni rods in packs of 4/5 for like $7......if you need more check with an Agri Supply store as I have found a 10 lb. box of Ni rod for $30ish.....I had a vise that a friend busted and gave it to me...I decided the hell with it 7018 with pre and post heat.......it looked great and worked just fine....to set there and as a paper weight.....it quickly started cracking so I ground it out and tried again.....then decided to toss it....it's not worth it to me.....get the Ni rod and make sure it's the right one....(not some rod they gave me @ the LWS)go with the 99 so if you decide not to pre or post heat and it cracks you can grind it out an re-weld
Reply:I know that I am new at this (welding) and know little, but what about brazing it back together?I was under the impression that brazing is a better way to go regarding repairs when working with cast iron.Homard
Reply:Originally Posted by Shade Tree WelderCracking with steel rods will be you main issue.  I have heard claims of people welding cast iron with 7018, but have never seen one in 22 years of welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52"In the guise of being helpful"??? Did the thread answer the question or not? Seems to me it did and that IS being helpful. Who cares whether he owns the forum or not? No one here was able to or did answer the question.Although these topics can get 'contentious', here's more fuel: Originally Posted by zapsterBut I did notice that the plugs that fit "loose" would crack here and there on cool-down.. The ones that were tight did'nt have that problem.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ChamferTrodeAlthough these topics can get 'contentious', here's more fuel: Zapster, how tight of a fit do you think that stove hinge is?You yourself admit that a "loose fit" will crack, and I didn't search, but you didn't seem to post any Ni55/Ni99 cast to steel or cast to cast test sessions.
Reply:A high nickel rod (99Ni), pretty hot on the pre-heat, and let it cool s-l-o-w-l-y (bucket of vermiculite overnight, whatever).Grind the crack out well before starting.
Reply:I have sucessfully welded a broken hinge on a coal burning stove with 7018 and no preheat. The part was very small, and kind of preheated itself as I recall. I'm sure it was wrong, but it worked, and I didn't know any better.
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverichInternal hinge broke on the inside top lid on a Vermont castings wood stove. I should use nickel rod to weld the piece back on. Not even sure of the exact damage - only talked to the friend over the phone. From what I understand the piece is about 3/4 inch wide - 1 1/2 inch long - very basic hinge type. Any preheat/prep. suggestions? Thanks
Reply:You can also let the part welded with Everdure just cool right down. No special cooling.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:I have welded a few wood stoves.  They can be a bitch.  The metal is almost ash by the time you get to it.  Way too many hot and cold cycles.  Like an exhaust manifold.  Ni rod is your buddy.  Like most said above, preheat to almost red, weld away and cool slowly.  With a HOT part, you don't need as much amps for the rod, so 3/32 on the low side of recommended settings works well.  Multi passes help the heat affected zone too.Let us know how it works out.When all is said and done, more has been said than done. DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterhttp://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...ast+iron+steelAnd this..http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...ast+iron+steel
Reply:Umm Zap your own comments and the pictures you posted back up my statement that steel rods will not make a sound weld in cast iron.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterNowhere do I state thats it's a sound weld.. Re read what I typed..I just said it will hold..and it does to a certian point..It was all an experiment..And by the way if you want my fan club your more than welcome to it.. ...zap!
Reply:I'm not fighting anything...I never said I was right..I just posted results that all can see thats all.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is somewhat related. My brother in law got a cast iron fireplace grate for Christmas. Not long after he started a fire, a couple of small pieces cracked and broke off. Does anyone have an explanation for this?Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Stick Linde HDA-300 MillerMatic DVI MIG Miller Dynasty 200DX Hypertherm Powermax 1000
Reply:Originally Posted by Carl26Sorry to hijack the thread, but this is somewhat related. My brother in law got a cast iron fireplace grate for Christmas. Not long after he started a fire, a couple of small pieces cracked and broke off. Does anyone have an explanation for this?
Reply:I don't know. That's what we were joking about though. We were like, "ha ha, it's probably made in China!"Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Stick Linde HDA-300 MillerMatic DVI MIG Miller Dynasty 200DX Hypertherm Powermax 1000
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI'm not fighting anything...I never said I was right..I just posted results that all can see thats all.....zap!
Reply:am new to the site and can't seem to find the a way to post a question on another topic without adding it on to another unrelated topic.  need help!!
Reply:Originally Posted by kalloyam new to the site and can't seem to find the a way to post a question on another topic without adding it on to another unrelated topic.  need help!!
Reply:Alrighty, let's put this to sleep.Can CI be welded with steel rod? Yes, the same as welding SS with mild rod or vice versa. CI, steel and SS all ferrous (iron based), so they're going to admix. It's this admixture that is the problem in welding CI with steel rod. They make ECISt electrode, but it has limited uses (preheat HOT, >1000 deg. (do you want to be near that?), no machining, no grinding, unstressed parts only, SLOW cool (buried in founder's sand).Now comes ECINi, or your nickel rods, ENi55 is of course ~45% steel works great for CI that's preheated in the 700-1000 deg. range, but because of the steel content, once again no machining and grinding is NOT a good idea.ENI99 because it's essentially nickel (no steel) welds CI with the least amount of issues (relatively), preheat, weld, slow cool, and you can machine and grind the weld, plus trust the join not to fail (IF you are knowledgeable and followed procedure).Now the science, when you use steel rod on CI, the steel rod because it's melting the CI picks up free carbon, that make the weld bead high carbon steel (very hard stuff, they make knives with it), couple this with the rapid cooling of the weld metal from the sinking from the CI, and you've made a weld bead of quenched high carbon steel (super hard/super brittle stuff, they make files and cutting tools from it). Now you have a bead that is as fragile as glass, any stress and it will crack, could be at the transition zone, could be right down the center. It will break.The other factor with using steel filler is, steel shrinks more on cooling than CI, so every steel on CI weld is under TREMENDOUS tension, it wants to pull out, eventually it will, cracking along the transition zone (as exhibited in Zapsters tests).Nickel filler works for two reasons, a) nickel (well, most non-ferrous) doesn't absorb carbon b) nickel doesn't quench harden (like steel), so the deposit is sound and workable.EDIT:They also make rods made of CI for welding cast iron but that a discussion for a different dayLast edited by ChamferTrode; 01-14-2008 at 09:13 AM.
Reply:A+ ChamferTrodeCouldn't have said it better my self.Thank YouDavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RA+ ChamferTrodeDavid
Reply:ChamferChode, good explanation on welding CI, but you really should get the stick in your anus looked at. Its affecting your manners.Miller Syncrowave 200Hobart Handler 140Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38E-Z Tube BenderPlasma Cam DHC2
Reply:Originally Posted by ChamferTrodeAlrighty, let's put this to sleep.Can CI be welded with steel rod? Yes, the same as welding SS with mild rod or vice versa. CI, steel and SS all ferrous (iron based), so they're going to admix. It's this admixture that is the problem in welding CI with steel rod. They make ECISt electrode, but it has limited uses (preheat HOT, >1000 deg. (do you want to be near that?), no machining, no grinding, unstressed parts only, SLOW cool (buried in founder's sand).Now comes ECINi, or your nickel rods, ENi55 is of course ~45% steel works great for CI that's preheated in the 700-1000 deg. range, but because of the steel content, once again no machining and grinding is NOT a good idea.ENI99 because it's essentially nickel (no steel) welds CI with the least amount of issues (relatively), preheat, weld, slow cool, and you can machine and grind the weld, plus trust the join not to fail (IF you are knowledgeable and followed procedure).Now the science, when you use steel rod on CI, the steel rod because it's melting the CI picks up free carbon, that make the weld bead high carbon steel (very hard stuff, they make knives with it), couple this with the rapid cooling of the weld metal from the sinking from the CI, and you've made a weld bead of quenched high carbon steel (super hard/super brittle stuff, they make files and cutting tools from it). Now you have a bead that is as fragile as glass, any stress and it will crack, could be at the transition zone, could be right down the center. It will break.The other factor with using steel filler is, steel shrinks more on cooling than CI, so every steel on CI weld is under TREMENDOUS tension, it wants to pull out, eventually it will, cracking along the transition zone (as exhibited in Zapsters tests).Nickel filler works for two reasons, a) nickel (well, most non-ferrous) doesn't absorb carbon b) nickel doesn't quench harden (like steel), so the deposit is sound and workable.EDIT:They also make rods made of CI for welding cast iron but that a discussion for a different day
Reply:OKAY...welded part on Wednesday. Preheated with OXY rig to bright orange....immediately had helper unclamp both pieces and tong them whilst I struck 99% Ni rod @ 65? amps....flowed like BUTTAH...part was cold to the touch about 30 minutes later (probably due to the fact that it was so small) ...fitted up the hinge and it fit perfectly - I'll post some pictures if you want.Overall, it was a good experience - my biggest worry was losing heat between the time that I cut off the torch and the pieces were aligned to weld.-JakeDo you really know all of the work that goes into getting that fish onto your plate?
Reply:Originally Posted by jeverich...flowed like BUTTAH...
Reply:I would braze that myself being as old as it is and you have a lot less worry about cracking and such. DO NOT EVER TRY TO WELD CAST IRON WITH STEEL ROD!!!!! You will make a mess. Brazing is the most forgiving method. Go to the Lincoln website and look up welding cast iron. They have one of the worlds leading authorities on this very thing working for them. Read what he has to say and you will learn a lot about it. I do a lot of cast iron repair and mostly I use Corcast 8600. This is a gas shielded flux cored welding wire, very good stuff, it's main drawback is the near $40.00/lb price tag. Beats NiRod all over the place.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.