electro magnetic pull

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Has anyone ever heard or learned about electro magnetic pull in welding?
Reply:A little more context for your question would help in answering.The first thing that came to mind when I read your post is 'Arc Blow'.  Arc Blow is slang for when the arc will wander around during direct current welding of steel.  Is this what you're asking about?  Or am I off-base?
Reply:first thing in my mind too.maybe as arc guidance (weaving) in robotic welds?
Reply:Yes it happens and can both help and hurt.  With DC welding, wrapping the cable around the work can sometimes help.  Switching to AC and zapping the part can help sometimes too because parts can be come magnetized or polarized when welded with only DC.  There are companies that make magnetic heads for TIG welding that can be used to deflect, oscillate, or even spin the arc.  The spinning arcs can be used to stir the weld puddle.  I saw a video once at an Internet website.  To learn more, just Google "magnetic arc oscillation" and you might find the people that do it.
Reply:What I am talking about is the magnetic force at the arc,   accounting for proper transfer of weld deposit material in out of position welds.we used to refer to it as  "EMP"   surely I am not the only one around here that has heard of this??
Reply:Try moving your ground clamp to a different position on your welding table, it makes the current take a different path through your work, and or move your work to a different spot on your table, if you are using a welding table, if not place your clamp in a different spot on your work.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mark...Has anyone ever heard or learned about electro magnetic pull in welding?
Reply:I think he means when welding steel something becomes magnetic..I've had it happen too..Suddenly the filler rod is "sucked" to the piece and usually grounds out where your not aiming it.. I can't explane it either but I believe thats what he's saying..The thinner the filler the more it will "bend"......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What I am talking about is the magnetic force that attracts the molten metal to the base metal in out of position welding. Well the force is still there in the flat position, but with the pull of gravity, doesn't account for much. When welding over head say with oh, 7018 if you didn't have electromagnetic pull, the molten globules would just fall to the ground. If you hold a long arc, the magnetic force is not enough to attract the molten metal and they roll off the end of the rod falling to the ground.I am sure some of you are going to pick away at this, but I am just telling you what they taught us in tech school. If I remember right the instructor also referred to if as the "pinching off" of molten metal at the end of the rod.
Reply:I think he means when welding steel something becomes magnetic..I've had it happen too..
Reply:I am sure some of you are going to pick away at this, but I am just telling you what they taught us in tech school. If I remember right the instructor also referred to if as the "pinching off" of molten metal at the end of the rod.
Reply:With stick, I've found it very frustrating at the inside corners of "H" beam connections.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandySounds very possible. When you look at stick or mig cables you'll see all the grinding particles lined up along the cables. You'll have pieces on the tables surrounded with shavings. Polarization. I don't TIG and hold the fillers like TIGgers do but I can imagine that happening to some extent.
Reply:...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Hard to believe, ain't it, Zap?I would sure like to see one them non-ferrous attracting magnets in action.Why don't you start a new thread on your amazing magnets, Billy, instead of taking yet another thread into fantasyland?
Reply:I could reaally use an aluminum magnet..
Reply:This is getting out of hand..Now yet another thread has been turned upside down.. Please try to stay on course..William..Could you please start a new thread in "Off Topic" about magnets that detect non magnetic material??Thank You...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It is not magnetism holding the molten metal to the plate when out of position, it is surface tension.
Reply:you are absolutely right Supe, but that is not what I am talking about. I am referring to the transfer of metal from the rod to the base metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrII have a book on how to build electromagnets for silver, aluminum and other nonferrous metals. But I have a niobium magnet that will attract $0.05 nickels and 60-61 aluminum. So it is not really surprising. Sincerely,William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by Mark...you are absolutely right Supe, but that is not what I am talking about. I am referring to the transfer of metal from the rod to the base metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThis is getting out of hand..Now yet another thread has been turned upside down.. Please try to stay on course..William..Could you please start a new thread in "Off Topic" about magnets that detect non magnetic material??Thank You...zap!
Reply:Hey Mark,I spent 3 years in welding school and know exactly what you are referring to. The force responsible for transferring molten particles of metal across the arc by means of a pinching effect otherwise known as electromagnetism. This phenomenon can been seen in Smaw as well as Gmaw. It has nothing to do with arc blow, magnetizing the work piece.Last edited by westcoast welder; 01-19-2008 at 09:39 PM.
Reply:William..Could you please start a new thread in "Off Topic" about magnets that detect non magnetic material??Thank You
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrI was just trying to clear it up before someone does claim that once again reality does not exist.Originally Posted by BrettEh? What? What Law of Physics allows all or most of the  Electrons in the Aluminium to spin the one way  creating the magnetic ability only in your shop and nowhere else in the Universe?Paramagnetism is a form of magnetism, and can be induced in Al. but you need 300°C and  the presence of an externally applied magnetic field.And its weak.Alnico magnets is an  alloy of aluminium, nickel and cobalt. They can be more powerful than Steel but will not attract Al.Sure run enough current and you have a solenoid but don't talk crap.
Reply:Originally Posted by Alan NYOUR reality is anything but REAL!Quit taking threads off on your lunatic tangents you boneheaded SOB!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrIt is not well known however some real colleges in the sixties and early seventies were closed, when they would not stop teaching things like this. It does not make what I am saying untrue. It does not change reality. It just means I am only able to talk to a few that can understand me. There are some colleges now that do recognize the older laws of magnetism and acknowledge that all things are more or less magnetic.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettWhat!Typical Troll talk.On top of that your proof is a Web site under construction and Two grainy 1930's photos I hope none of the younger people looking for real answers are fooled by this rubbish.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettWhat!Typical Troll talk.On top of that your proof is a Web site under construction and Two grainy 1930's photos I hope none of the younger people looking for real answers are fooled by this rubbish.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyDon't close or abandon this thread till I get the plans to a gold magnet.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettWhat!Typical Troll talk.On top of that your proof is a Web site under construction and Two grainy 1930's photos I hope none of the younger people looking for real answers are fooled by this rubbish.
Reply:Here taken from my own text books. read pinch effectyour ignorance is amusing William McCormick.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrThose books were written in the early 1940's before we went to war officially with Germany. I would suspect that they are a little worn. Ha-ha.Why would you wish to doubt them?       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:I am going to go down and build it now. I don't know if I will finish it tonight or not. But I will video tape it when it is done. It should pick up quarters, nickels and gold.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mark...What I am talking about is the magnetic force at the arc,   accounting for proper transfer of weld deposit material in out of position welds.we used to refer to it as  "EMP"   surely I am not the only one around here that has heard of this??
Reply:Pinch effect!?!    That's the old Linde trick! They liked to put "pinch effect" controls on their welders.I swear, it didn't change a thing! We studied hard to try to find any noticeable real world difference. Pinch effect's purpose, was probably selling welders!
Reply:Why is it that all of Billy's "proof" is only on HIS website?Why would he even want to mess with alumnium? I though that it will generate perpetual motion, attract lightning, reject EMI and help create that all-famous liquid diode. Dicking around with magnetic aluminum could harness nuclear fusion next, and it would only be found on www.rockwelder.comReally...I read it on the Internet...it has to be true!
Reply:Keep studying Tanglediver, you will find it.
Reply:Why is it that nobody ever tries (when getting ARC-BLOW)  ... ADDING a second ground to the work, maybe 180 degrees across from the first ground cable ?I've had it help me at my job ,many times . Sometimes a welder needs to THINK about the problem .Then DO something about it . the surface tension problem when welding overhead every welder learns , or , he (she) doesn't pass the test . Keep a tight arc, &stay out from under the path of falling slag , or you'll learn the HARD way. (painful)[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:I am not talking about arc blow. And no, I am not sadly mistaking arc blow for electromagnetic pull.
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownWhy is it that all of Billy's "proof" is only on HIS website?Why would he even want to mess with alumnium? I though that it will generate perpetual motion, attract lightning, reject EMI and help create that all-famous liquid diode. Dicking around with magnetic aluminum could harness nuclear fusion next, and it would only be found on www.rockwelder.comReally...I read it on the Internet...it has to be true!
Reply:Originally Posted by turboblownWhy is it that all of Billy's "proof" is only on HIS website?Why would he even want to mess with alumnium? I though that it will generate perpetual motion, attract lightning, reject EMI and help create that all-famous liquid diode. Dicking around with magnetic aluminum could harness nuclear fusion next, and it would only be found on www.rockwelder.comReally...I read it on the Internet...it has to be true!
Reply:Lessee, GE Labs exposed an aluminum disk to an electrically generated field.  Since conductors can/do develope an electrric charge when subjected to a magnetic field the AL disk was, in effect generating current.  That current had it's own magnetic field that caused the disk to levitate.  Where in that little project did the AL actually have anything to do with the magnetism other than being a conductor of induced currents?  They could have done it with copper or steel/iron but that would have been way to heavy to float with the power being produced.If you can make a magnet that will attract gold why isn't the mining industry using it to aid in the smelting/refining process?   Seems like they coud save beaucoup bucks by seperating gold bearing rock from plain old rock before they run it through the mill.Show us your book with all your non-ferrous attracting magnets, Billy.Oh yeah, explain how ALL the documentation of this wondrous stuff you "know" was somehow rounded up and destroyed by every government in the world at some point in the past.  That comes close to shades of 1984!  I wonder if Orwell was a paranoid crackpot in his time too.Once again, Billy, your "experiments", on Crockwelder, with no documentation nor repeatability mean nothing.   It's amazing that you actually find time to hold a job, which you claim to do on occasion, and still have time to set up all your bogus "proof".Last edited by Alan N; 01-20-2008 at 06:03 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Alan NLessee, GE Labs exposed an aluminum disk to an electrically generated field.  Since conductors can/do develope an electrric charge when subjected to a magnetic field the AL disk was, in effect generating current.  That current had it's own magnetic field that caused the disk to levitate.  Where in that little project did the AL actually have anything to do with the magnetism other than being a conductor of induced currents?  They could have done it with copper or steel/iron but that would have been way to heavy to float with the power being produced.If you can make a magnet that will attract gold why isn't the mining industry using it to aid in the smelting/refining process?   Seems like they coud save beaucoup bucks by seperating gold bearing rock from plain old rock before they run it through the mill.Show us your book with all your non-ferrous attracting magnets, Billy.Oh yeah, explain how ALL the documentation of this wondrous stuff you "know" was somehow rounded up and destroyed by every government in the world at some point in the past.  That comes close to shades of 1984!  I wonder if Orwell was a paranoid crackpot in his time too.Once again, Billy, your "experiments", on Crockwelder, with no documentation nor repeatability mean nothing.   It's amazing that you actually find time to hold a job, which you claim to do on occasion, and still have time to set up all your bogus "proof".
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr I might get it on video by tonight.
Reply:Originally Posted by Alan NWhat part of NOBODY BELIEVES YOUR CROCKWELDER VIDEOS WITHOUT PROOF don't you understand?
Reply:Originally Posted by Alan NWhat part of NOBODY BELIEVES YOUR CROCKWELDER VIDEOS WITHOUT PROOF don't you understand?
Reply:Like everything else you babble,, that has no relevance to anything in this thread.Keep spouting!!!
Reply:William there is nothing ground breaking in what you show .Nor is there any silly conspiracy re teaching it .What you have demonstrated in the video with aluminium is:DiamagnetismDiamagnetism is a weak repulsion from a magnetic field.It is only exhibited in the presence of an externally applied magnetic field.The orbits of the electrons change, nothing new , has been known for a long time as I said before even human tissue will do this .Aluminium is  neutral  magnetically.It does not mean Aluminium is magnetic in the everyday  usage nor in the way you implied .It is  because that  electrons in the aluminium are spinning in equal numbers in opposite directions. Stop reading obscure books and read a simple physics book .Some topics for you to understand correctly:DiamagnetismFerromagnetic Materials ParamagnetismElectromagnetic field angular momentumEdit: SpellingA good guess is better than a bad measurement