If you could have any options on an engine driven welder...

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...what would they be?  I was thinking about this today and am just a little bit frustrated with the engine driven welder options out there.  I know that sounds crazy considering how many models there are, but none of them will do everything I want.I am running a TB302 Air Pak right now.  I stopped at a gas station today to fill it and the truck up and was thinking how much easier it would be if the welder was diesel.  One transaction and the ability to carry extra an extra fuel tank that could fill either of them.  This is my wishlist for an engine driven welder:TB302 welding capability12000 + watts of generator powerThree phase generatorOn-board screw air compressorDiesel engineSub $12k price tagUnder 1000 poundsBattery charger/jump starterWhat about you guys?  I'm starting to do a mental "slowhand" right now...Last edited by jmtebbens; 07-14-2011 at 05:57 PM.
Reply:The big blue air pak has everything you want. ...... well except for the sub $12k price tag Edit: I just looked it up.  You have to get the deluxe model to get the large generator and AC welding capability (tb302 has it).  That bumps the MSRP up to almost $32k and the purchace price to almost $26k (cyberweld). OUCH!!!!Last edited by AndyA; 07-14-2011 at 05:53 PM.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:See, the real MF'er about it is that I have ZERO need for 750A DC capability.  I am normally under 200 amps and they only time I am above there is for either carbon arc gouging or jump starting a locomotive.  I also don't really need a 2k pound welder on the back of my 4500.  That 800 pound range sounds a lot nicer.
Reply:I've been out here for just about 35 years right now and here's my opinions.  I love diesel engines, but I only like Perkins engines on my welders.  IMO they are the smoothest engines to what I can feel through the leads.  And I've felt several over the years.As for jump starting.  I don't do that because I've messed up my welders before doing just that.  I use jumper cables from the 12 volt engine system or I won't do it.  NOT FROM MY MACHINE!!!!!  I use that machine to make my living and I won't jump nothing from my welder.  No matter what. lolHaving auxiliary power is one thing but being able to use it is another.  First I'd check the wiring size myself.  Recently i bought a machine with a lot of auxiliary power and I found I couldn't use it because it kept tripping the GFI's when I did.  That made it useless to me and also made my purchase a bad one.  I am still sore over that single point.  Don't make that mistake - please.3phase auxiliary power is fine but remember that there isn't that much single phase available.  Yes it might say that in the adds but in reality drawing max single phase from a 3phase generator isn't a good thing.  Learn why I said that and you'll wise up I guarantee and know for yourself.  Treat a generator like it was built and it will last.  Abuse it by loading it lop-sided and it won't.  None will I don't think.If you were me welding quality would be my first limit and at this point in time I can say I wouldn't buy anything new.  Nothing I see impresses me anymore.  (I'm a tough room I guess)    Think very hard on this please so you don't wind up disappointed.  And whatever you decide to buy TRY IT FULLY FIRST even if you haft to rent one for a week.  Don't buy based only on what you read.  Only on experience - then you will be happy with your purchase with no surprised.  Surprises is what makes one unhappy later. lolGood luck manLast edited by slowhand; 07-14-2011 at 09:49 PM.
Reply:See, these are the type of things that worry me.  Even if I get ALL the options I want, how much is the weld quality going to suffer.  There has to be some give and take, ya know?  I really want the three phase for my Hypertherm PMX65.  Running it 200' away from the truck, straight up, to the top of a coal stacker sucks when your extension cord is heavier than your welding lead.  I want the three phase so I can run a smaller (lighter) extension cord for it.I'm really considering something completely different:- PTO on the truck (it's a stick), and a hydraulic air compressor- 20ish KW three phase generator installed in place of the TB302- Throw my XMT350 CC/CV on the truck and just plug it in to the generatorThis would probably do everything I am asking for and be a bit cheaper.  Plus I LOVE the way that XMT lays one in and I already have it around as a spare.
Reply:1800 RPM Diesel
Reply:If I could have anything at all, it would have to be a kegerator so I could always have ice cold beer on tap at the end of the day. And maybe an automatic taco maker. In real life? Less fuel consumption and a helluva lot less weight. Maybe a automatic spoiling system for 500' of leadGo Cards!!!!!
Reply:1800 RPM Diesel
Reply:Originally Posted by slowhandHaving auxiliary power is one thing but being able to use it is another.  First I'd check the wiring size myself.  Recently i bought a machine with a lot of auxiliary power and I found I couldn't use it because it kept tripping the GFI's when I did.  That made it useless to me and also made my purchase a bad one.  I am still sore over that single point.  Don't make that mistake - please.Good luck man
Reply:Originally Posted by davido30093FB just posted a lot of knowledge and experience in this simple statement.
Reply:E F I2nd choice, as FB said, 1800rpm diesel...Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:On board Air compressor is my biggest complaint  or I want 20k or 25k generator enough power to run my air compressor and my plasma cutter plus some lights.. 1800rpm diesel def perfer the perkins i would like a 20 or 25 gallon diesel cap so I can fill up once a week with the truck. Wireless amp control would be awesome. Im sure I will think of moreVantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardI hoped someone would catch that, do you think anyone else might ask for details? Or is it so obscure as to fly by unnoticed? I did a lot of shop welding in March, by a lot i'm talking 10 hours a day 6 days a week 300 amps nearly continuous, plus smoke extractors and another guy fitting and cutting,  it is cold in March in Alaska. The welders and the office heat (electric base board heat) are on separate meters..... I'm getting there just keep reading...The bill for the shop was $85.00 higher than when dormant. The office was $100.00 more than same time last year, this year we have a woman working the front desk and as we know women are all cold all the time. (no offence ladies) The shop is 3 phase 460 service the office is 240 single. Now ask why the fat guy said all this????? ..... crazy or wise?
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Pull the GFI receptacles out and replace them with normal ones, put a "Portable" GFI cord on the end your extension cord if you want the GFI
Reply:I've been studying this over the last few weeks as well. When my AEAD200LE broke on a big field job and I barely made it through I started looking at possible replacements and upgrades. I'm not happy with what's out there either. I know it was the heat that did in my welder and part of the problem is how I've got it mounted. I had some problems with the Bobcat I had mounted there before as well till I replaced the engine with a Honda. After that it never gave me any trouble. I'm starting to think that the big problem is the Onan engine. The horizontal opposed format has the heat from the engine blowing down the sides of the welder and getting recirculated into the generator end. The Honda being a V twin sat a little higher and blew most of the heat above the welder.   I'd really like a Legend 302 though I feel that even it could use some improvements. But it's the best compromise in a commercial welder I've found that's small and light enough for me to have on the truck all the time. To bad they quit making them a few years ago.   Thus I started thinking the generator and XMT304 route. It's got a lot of plus sides to it. If you could find a good low speed (1800 rpm) diesel generator in the 10-14kw range that was enclosed for sound it would be a good way to go. I expanded my searches to include generators after that. However I've found that finding a small quiet generator over 8kw is difficult at least on the used market which is where I'm force to search at the moment. The only ones I've found that are large enough generating capacity are either to large or to noisy or both.   I did manage to get a diesel welder/generator for a decent price due to my searches. (see pic) The problem is that it's a bit to large for me to keep on my truck all the time. It's a MultiQuip BLW400-SSW. I got it cheap enough (in my mind) for it being a diesel 400 amp welder and 14kw generator. While I've not done any real welding with it yet my trials in the shop on some scrap has me rather surprised at the good quality of the arc. It's a little different than some of the other welders I've used but it seems to run a good bead. I plan on putting it on a trailer (possibly made from a truck utility bed) for when I get a large field job.   After getting the Multquip I started researching them more. I have to say that they come the closest of anybody to making a welder like what I'd like to have. They've got a couple of smaller models to the one I have that would be a perfect fit on my truck. The newer models have arc force controls and the ability to weld at idle up to a certain amperage both features I would like to have. I have to say that if I had the money I'd be looking real hard at the DLW300ESA model. It will weld to 160amps at idle and 300 amps full out plus it's got a 10kw generating capability. Looking around it seems to run right around $10k. It weighs 850lbs and the size isn't that much bigger than say a TB302.  However since that's not a option for me right now I'm looking at changing the engine on my AEAD200LE. I looked into a new Honda engine and while it's got promise it's $1400. I started thinking that the real thing to do would be to use a diesel. Thus I started looking for used engines. I've found that it's fairly easy to find a used Kubota engine for less than the $1400 for a new Honda and even easier to find a whole mower with all the parts needed to make one run. In fact I managed to pick up a nice Kubota lawn mower with a 3 cylinder 16HP engine for $1k. Then immediately had two more just like it drop in my lap on a trade (though one of them is a parts mower).   Since I'm going to be doing such a major change on the welder I'm figuring on putting a air compressor on it as well. While it's not going to be nice screw compressor like I'd like it will at least give me some air capability in the field once I mount a tank or two under my truck. I might even add a hydraulic pump to run a hydraulic winch and the like. I would have to have clutches on both so that they're not robbing engine power while welding full out but it'll still be a smaller package than separate engines.  I plan on enclosing it with sound absorbing material to make it as quiet at possible (like my Multiquip). Attached ImagesMillermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Boy this thread makes me feel better, been struggling with air-weight-space-electrical for a while. Like most things in life there is NO silver bullet. Here is my wish list:1. 25 CFM air min (prefer 10 cfm more )2. 15 KW min. ( prefer 20 KW )3. Fits in a breadboxand weighs 10 lbs.... Realistic 2.5 ft x 4ft under 800lbs even this is problamatic, weight I can do space on my bed????4. Cannot effect welds..period no option5. Doesn't cost a small fortune 20 grand is crazyThe underhood compressors are nice but $7500 is too much and still no power.I have toyed with the idea of using a PTO to run a 20KW generator but even that has drawbacks a decent plasma and a air compressor will hammer 20KW, Plasma is 60 amps and air is 42-44 amps.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschrom3. Fits in a breadboxand weighs 10 lbs.... Realistic 2.5 ft x 4ft under 800lbs even this is problamatic, weight I can do space on my bed????4. Cannot effect welds..period no option
Reply:Some other thoughts about the engine;You would want the carbureted version.  Wiki doesn't give info about the ignition system, but you would want a simple breakerless ignition where you apply 12volts and the engine will fire.  I am not sure which if any of those engines function in that way.  As long as it has a distributor, it would not be overly hard to retrofit a GM HEI ignition module to it.It is extremely easy to use an internally regulated alternator with an idiot light to build a single switch start/run feature.. like switching on an electric motor.I can't think of a super-easy way to build a governor for it; but less-than-super-easy is very doable.  It would involve an RC servo, a 556 chip, and an rpm sensor of some sort.You would have to redo the exhaust system because it will be running full out to power the compressor and generator at max output, and without a muffler, it will be really loud.You would need an oversized radiator, because the one it had in the car would not be able to keep the engine cool without the ram air it gets from going down the road; the air motion from the radiator fan wouldn't likely be enough.There are definitely a number of details/hurtles that would have to be addressed.Ya know, come to think of it, this would be a huge project.  Forget I said anything.  "Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Oh No doubt it is ambitious.To clarify #4 its supposed to be a welder remember on the can't effect welds ( original post ). Forget about that for the moment as other than CAC I don't need that, I am mounting a lincoln sa-250, with CV. Just focusing on a air/generator setup yes 3-3.5 ft tall this is still a tall order. An item you left out is the tank, a thirty gallon is 16x38 inches, split up two fifteen gallons are 2ea 12x33 inches, big space suck, if I use a conventional air compressor head. 25 CFM is 7 HP on electric, 13-15 hp on motor driven.Your thoughts on a car motor are good though I have been toying with that, in a couple of versions.1. belt drive like you said for air, direct couple generator.2. This is a little cocky but check this out:    http://dunnrightinc.com/I doesn't need to be a Volkswagon, A ford V8 works ( too big and heavy), and some inline six cylinders, the volks has the advantage of no radiator. but whatever motor would be used its 1/2 power, and probably need a power factor adjustment to boot to direct couple a generator.I was looking at the ST 24 kw generator BTW.Again weight I can juggle some add a spring set if neccesary, space its a problem. I like my truck but I wish it was a 84 inch CA length not a 60 inch.If this was easy I would have already done this and posting pictures instead of grumbling.
Reply:does anyone have a great big genset that they just run all of there machines (inverteor welder, plasma, air compressor) off of?  it seems to me that if you had a big generator, you could have a modullar set up and only take the equiptment needed at that time.
Reply:A local farmer set his truck up with a PTO generator. I think it's a 20kw though it might be smaller. I know of two problems he's had with it. One the factory PTO they used on the Allison automatic quit working. It's a custom PTO made by the sellers of the generator and I wasn't impressed with it. It had a solenoid that was supposed to engage it when certain criteria where met. But it proved very unreliable. I fixed him up with a manual shift for it and that problem was fixed. The only other problem is that the generator has a tendency to pack with dirt and mud if not used very often.   If you're not using it for long periods I think it's a good way to go if done properly. However I think that it wouldn't be very economical on fuel even with his diesel engine. I must say thought that I considered similar in the past when I wasn't doing as much portable work as I do now.   I've been looking into the big generator for my truck and from what I've seen when you get big enough to do it all they're to big and heavy to mount on a truck.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:How big do you need irish?  The biggest I've ever installed in a truck was a 100K for NYPD after the first attempt to bring down the twin towers.  Was mounted in a Navistar 4200 and driven off a main driveline split shaft gearbox.Installing 36-40K units were quite common in rescues driven the same way and units with 10-15 quite common off the transmission with one of those Muncie "Hot Shift" hydraulic engaged PTOs.The direct drive units need a governor to maintain the correct generator input speed and with todays electronic engines a high idle setting can typically do the job.If you can justify the cost, the hydraulic drive generators that are out there (Road Power, Harrison Hyragen, Onan, etc) provide a wide range of engine RPM operation from idle to governed speed including normal driving conditions for power on the fly.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55How big do you need irish?  The biggest I've ever installed in a truck was a 100K for NYPD after the first attempt to bring down the twin towers.  Was mounted in a Navistar 4200 and driven off a main driveline split shaft gearbox.Installing 36-40K units were quite common in rescues driven the same way and units with 10-15 quite common off the transmission with one of those Muncie "Hot Shift" hydraulic engaged PTOs.The direct drive units need a governor to maintain the correct generator input speed and with todays electronic engines a high idle setting can typically do the job.If you can justify the cost, the hydraulic drive generators that are out there (Road Power, Harrison Hyragen, Onan, etc) provide a wide range of engine RPM operation from idle to governed speed including normal driving conditions for power on the fly.
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitI thought about hydraulic drive several times on my rig. In fact I have a pto with direct mount pump out in storage that I bought to put on my truck. I wanted it for hydraulic winch but also considered it for powering the welder and a air compressor. It would nice and handy but it wastes a lot of power to heat.  All of this is pretty mute for me since unless I come across a surplus unit cheap I couldn't justify even the simplest setup.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromI have also, I have a lot of hydraulic parts, and my Aisin tranny on my dodge can do PTO.The downside to this is cost to run it I can see me using $40-50 a day in fuel, and wear and tear on my cummins. I didn't come up with anything really clever but I have solved 2/3rds of my problem. I am going to move the oil filter on my welder to a remote, so I can suck the welder up closer to my gas racks, and still change the filter. That leaves me room to get a gas powered air compressor sideways between my tool boxes. I still have enough room to load a gen set, my old 8kw Kohler will get pressed back into service for a while, that with the 3kw on my welder will do everything but run a CAC or a decent Plasma.But I am eyeballing a Miller Welder ( they have a three phase Bobcat) which doesn't run much more than a decent generator, in the meantime I have torches to cut with and unless I got a job that needed that kind of setup soon I can wait it out for as while.Like your boxes did you make those? The gantry is neat also but I don't need it ( at least right now ). BTW, while I was looking and fiddling around I found a rebuilt Perkins 4 cyclinder Diesel on the spokane, wa craigslist for $1800. Supposed to be a fresh rebuild and I checked it it's either 58 or 68 HP, can't remember which right now. That's definately a beast motor and would run a big generator. I am not affliated with that motor in any way, just someting I found while digging around.My truck is not as far along as yours, about every time I get rolling something sets me back. This morning its snow, and the perkins engine rebuild is taking longer than I expected. I wasted a lot of time disagreeing with my son about boxes,  I wanted to build them, he wanted to buy them ( said they would be cheaper ). Well they aren't really cheaper, the aren't the right size, and I want open from the top and front boxes, which after a ton of looking I can't find any.I am building and collecting a pile of parts though right now, bottle racks ( 2 ea ) both done, lead reels done, about 1/2 way throught the hooser bar. And a whole bunch of little pieces parts that take a bunch of time on my lathe and mill.Air compressor like I said is solved I am just going to mount a Curtis, or Saylor Beall right behind my toolboxes. I was thinking about building one but its just time and it really doesn't save me much dollars wise. I have a Curtis I built up about 12-15 years ago and its a great compressor, runs long and hard and puts out a bunch of air. After burning up three garbage compressors I built this one, buts its way to big to fit on my truck besides being 10 HP three phase.
Reply:Thanks.The boxes are a mix of built and bought. The front drivers side bottom box is built as is the two top boxes. The two back bottom and front on the passenger side are bought but with drawers and shelves added.  The poles come in handy sometimes. Other times they're essential.  Big engine but to much weight for my rig. I'm loaded max out for my tires and axles right now.  My rig has a really long history to it. I first built the tool boxes for my dad when he had it probably about 14-15 years ago. I've done modifying and changes for the last 8 years or so that I've had it. I managed a pretty big upgrade on the organization the first of last year but I've not had time since to do much.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:A thought comes top mind reading all this. Go to us govt. surplus and buy a motor/gen set in an enclosure. Big enough to run all electric gear and have some available capacity ( a couple hundred amps). get one on its own trailer and all you got to do is move in your shop gear and you can power the hose and shop too if the power goes out. Just a thought. Oh those military units should last like a billion hours too. And since there so cheap buy another for spare parts. just a thought.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:on my sa 200 gaser i have instaled a comp. from a old mack truck.10 cubic ft ,tapped to the oil and antifreze to the welder, put a elec. cluch from a lincion car aircond.it was free, put a elec. air presser switch 125$ and been useing it for 10 years. welds the same when comp. is running the old gov makes it work that way .  steady 60 psi on arc air torch. did take about two weeks at night of fooling around on the lathe and such.
Reply:1800 RPM Diesel I'm telling you this is the best option to get for a long term use it every day for 3 shifts no worry machine, everything else is fluff.
Reply:Originally Posted by necklesson my sa 200 gaser i have instaled a comp. from a old mack truck.10 cubic ft ,tapped to the oil and antifreze to the welder, put a elec. cluch from a lincion car aircond.it was free, put a elec. air presser switch 125$ and been useing it for 10 years. welds the same when comp. is running the old gov makes it work that way .  steady 60 psi on arc air torch. did take about two weeks at night of fooling around on the lathe and such.
Reply:The option I would choose is..... high duty cycle at say 150 A  (100% or so).  I really dislike having to wait for this dinky little 115 v welder to turn on again after a few minutes of welding.  Would it have been so expensive to put a small fan in it to keep it cool??
Reply:"A thought comes top mind reading all this. Go to us govt. surplus and buy a motor/gen set in an enclosure. Big enough to run all electric gear and have some available capacity ( a couple hundred amps). get one on its own trailer and all you got to do is move in your shop gear and you can power the hose and shop too if the power goes out. Just a thought. Oh those military units should last like a billion hours too."I spent a bunch of time in the Army and let me tell you the gen sets are a real mixed bag, I spent 3 years fighting generators overseas. Out of 9 gen sets 1 was good, heaven help us if it went down cause going down the line, the first couple in order of firing up weren't too bad the last three in line no matter how much fixing and maintenance were done on them they were scrap metal, would run under load for 15 min, and impossible to get the hertz dialed in.Another place I saw a bad gen set was when I wintered at the South Pole, a brand new Cat 100kw that ate the head in 2 months, and for a while our ranchs and farms around here wouldn't buy a CAT for their irrigation systems way to much trouble. The best gen set I ever worked with was a Siemens, always started, a minute to stabalize and come on line, it was a sweetheart.Generators in general are a pain, I have a lot of experience with them over the years some good experiences but a lot of bad.I can tell you some real stories about gen sets, particularly Army sets, remember our Army buys lowest bidder junk a lot of times and unless somebody really knows his spec's and how to write the required specs into a RFQ ( request for quote ) to weed out the crummy stuff junk gets bought.And yes there is surplus equipment that is old or outdated but a lot of that surplus stuff is junk that the maintenance staff want to dump as they eat parts and labor....nowdays police departments and County agencies get first pickings, then the stuff goes out to open bid.Doesn't mean you can't find something good just be careful, go to the auction only if you know a bit about what your buying and use your noodle when bidding.