Hobart 187 vs. Lincoln Power MIG 180 for custom motorcycle frames.

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Hi guys.I don’t know a thing about welding but want to learn. I intend to spend a year learning with home projects (broken casting on my compressor, repair a gate the keeps blowing off the hinges using mild steel, beef up the steel tube stand for my smoker, etc.)Then I want to start welding custom bike frames with steel tube (motorcycle chopper or trike). This sounds like fun. I might also do some metal sculpture work. This would be secondary. I am asking for your input on the Hobart Handler 187 vs. Lincoln Power MIG 180. The Hobart MIG welder sounds great and I have yet to read one negative comment about it. It is also a great value. Warranty is 5 yrs transformers, 3 years PC board & drive system, and 1 yr guns, regulators, etc. I am also thinking the Lincoln Power MIG 180 instead of the Lincoln SP-180T (various discount houses), PRO-MIG 180 (Lowes) or Weld-Pak 175HD (Home Depot). Lincoln sells the Power MIG as a professional unit. I guess this means it is a bit heaver-duty. I will pay about $100 more for the Power MIG than the other Lincolns, but I would have piece of mind. The warranty is 3 years / 90 days on the gun and cable assembly. Should I buy a tap machine or continuous? I read that repeatability is better for a newby with a tap. I also read a continuous control gives an experienced welder more control. Comments?Should I be buying a MIG welder? Are these machines heavy enough?For steel tube work I know I will need a steel tube nibbler; any recommendations?I will also need an abrasive chop saw. I am hesitant to buy a Harbor Freight saw, but don’t want to spend $200 for a name brand. I am thinking of a refurbished Makita or Dewalt. What are your ideas on this?What other questions should I ask?Thanks in advance for your help.
Reply:I can't answer your welder questions as I am just a weekend warrior. I try to refrain from giving advice on subjects that I to am trying to learn.As far as the abrasive saw goes, I have a 14" Milwaukee and love it. I got it at Home Depot for well less than $200. I think it was about $160. I would avoid any of the HF power tools as I hear they are crap. I say spend a fair amount of money on a brand-name saw. You will spend a lot more time fitting than you will welding.Welding is the easy part in my opinion.BrentLincoln 3200HD MIGLincoln AC/DC 225 Stick
Reply:Go with either the Lincoln ProMig 180C, or the equivalent Miller. Hobart is Millers retail line and the pro line is only slightly higher. If you don't mind spending the difference stick with continuous you will appreciate the added versatility down the road. Building the frames sounds cool, but you will not be able to achieve the level of skill needed in a year of teaching yourself. Keep in mind, those frames are subjected to a lot of stress and go through an extensive design and testing process. A failure at the very least is gonna hurt if it doesn't result in death. When you design and build something like that you are civilly and criminally liable in the event of failure. I've been on a Harley for 29 years now and welding even longer so I know a bit about the subject.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:180amp is good for what you want to do and the Hobart or Lincoln will handle it.But I can only give you a heads up on the lincoln. The pro mig 180 at lowes is the same as the power mig 180t other than the wire drive assembly in the power mig is a metal and the other is a composite and i honestly dont see why it wuold have to be metal. I chose the pro mig 180 (which is the 180t) because I could get it for around $500 delivered and came with the Lincoln warranty and could be extended for 2 more yrs for $80, plus for only $180 I was able to add the spool gun which is good if you have to weld aluminum. I also know with my 180t I can weld 1/4" all day long with no problem and it will weld up to 1/2" good but not sure if I would for long periods. I haven't used it very long but I can already see where continuos would be better but i dont see where it would ever be a must.Just make sure you research them both and shop around for price. If you decide to buy from the Pro store make sure you know about the welder you want to buy Because i found that the more you know about the welders and the prices the better your chance of getting a reasonable price.The Pro stores will take you for an expensive ride if you dont do your homework first.Both welders are good for what you want to do, just dont let anyone fool you about the power mig as I bought the pro mig and it comes with the exact same manual as the power mig, same parts just dif drive assembly and I dont see where the metal would be worth the $400 - $500 more.good luck
Reply:Hi Mikey,Welcome to the forum! As others have mentioned the units you are looking at ate all a good choice.  The only thing I am questioning is that you want a MIG?  I prefer TIG when doing small tubing.Me!
Reply:I'll second the tig.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:I second the Lincoln or Miller comment. I'm a fan of the constantly variable dials. However I'm not too fond of the guns on the smaller machines. I upgraded mine after warrantying two. Either of them will do what you want. I've used my Miller for the same type of projects.  That said, and someone already mentioning the TIG, you might be happier with that choice. You will have better control of the weld, especially when joining such small piece of tubing where there isn't a lot of surface area. Btu a MIG will still do just fine.As far as a chop saw, Milwaukee is it for under $200. I have one and it does awesome with a nice cutoff wheel in it. The DeWalts are decent, but my friend burns his up almost annually, and I have never had any issues with mine. Ironically, I run DeWalt blades because they are the nicest thign I can get locally. 7/32" blades also, not the 1/8" ones. They are too thick, bog down easier.Lincoln PowerMIG 215XTLincoln Precision TIG 225Hypertherm 300
Reply:If you are looking for a saw also I would recommend a dry cut saw.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...+cable+dry+cutMe!
Reply:We have a 7 year old WeldPak 155 that we have burned who knows how much wire with. Hundreds of pounds. It has the composite drive and there has never been a problem with it. The metal drive unit is for the guys who run it all day every day, and that is probably the only time you would be able to see the difference. It still has the gun that came on it. My dad has a WeldPak 135 that's around 10 years old, got it when they first came out with them. He's never had a problem at all with it. You can do just about anything with the tapped machine, but if you have ever used the continuous machines you will not want anything else. It gives more precise control, and there are times it would be really handy especially on the really light stuff. The repair center I get parts from has the ProMig 180C for about 680.00 (that's brand new and as yet I haven't found anyone that can beat their prices on any machine, even online) if I remember correctly. Not positive because I only asked out of curiosity while I was waiting on them to find some stuff I ordered. I remember it because I was figuring at least 800.00. This is the largest welding supply I have ever seen, are distributors for Lincoln, Miller, Thermal Arc, ESAB, and Thermal Dynamics, and they have all the shipyards business locked up. I guess they deal in volume.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeyHi guys.I will also need an abrasive chop saw. I am hesitant to buy a Harbor Freight saw, but don’t want to spend $200 for a name brand. I am thinking of a refurbished Makita or Dewalt. What are your ideas on this?Thanks in advance for your help.
Reply:I prefer the continuously variable power controls regardless of brand. They are more flexible than the tapped machines.It's generally understood that the machines sold retail at the big box stores are lower quality than the machines with variable power available from internet and LWS sellers. As to the composite (molded plastic) drive parts versus casy alloy, there's not much difference or benefit to the cast IMHO. All of the inner drive parts and roller parts for the wire drive in my Lincoln SP175 Plus are steel anyway. As to motorcycle frames, I recommend TIG for the low-volume builder. I'm a long time Harley rider lover/owner/tinkerer and I've seen many, many frames both factory and home made. For example, I took a tour through the Paughco Co. in Carson City, Nevada about ten years ago. They are a large aftermarket Harley parts manufacturer employing a large crew of welders. At that time they built mostly with TIG but since then they shifted to MIG to support higher production since MIG is faster for high production. Their products are considered top quality.What is said about liability when building for the consumer trade is true. That shouldn't stop you from building something for yourself, however. You should spend a lot of time on jig design when considering frame building. It's critical that jigs provide the correct alignment. Happy Trails!   Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Originally Posted by Rocko180amp is good for what you want to do and the Hobart or Lincoln will handle it.But I can only give you a heads up on the lincoln. The pro mig 180 at lowes is the same as the power mig 180t other than the wire drive assembly in the power mig is a metal and the other is a composite and i honestly dont see why it wuold have to be metal. I chose the pro mig 180 (which is the 180t) because I could get it for around $500 delivered and came with the Lincoln warranty and could be extended for 2 more yrs for $80, plus for only $180 I was able to add the spool gun which is good if you have to weld aluminum. I also know with my 180t I can weld 1/4" all day long with no problem and it will weld up to 1/2" good but not sure if I would for long periods. I haven't used it very long but I can already see where continuos would be better but i dont see where it would ever be a must.Just make sure you research them both and shop around for price. If you decide to buy from the Pro store make sure you know about the welder you want to buy Because i found that the more you know about the welders and the prices the better your chance of getting a reasonable price.The Pro stores will take you for an expensive ride if you dont do your homework first.Both welders are good for what you want to do, just dont let anyone fool you about the power mig as I bought the pro mig and it comes with the exact same manual as the power mig, same parts just dif drive assembly and I dont see where the metal would be worth the $400 - $500 more.good luck