my dump trailer project

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Ok I hope I can load these pics.The first one is what I started with, a 32' camper frame I got cheap.#2 a pile -o - purlins#3 trailer taking shape on my weld table. #4 my little welder I love, on a cut up shopping cart.#5 Pony tank in the rearI think I have it down now, I have more pics of a few other projects I have in the works too. I just brought home my new anvil, we cast a few a work last week. Just got them back from heat treat.  Dinner is calling, gotta go. Scooter Attached ImagesLincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:No offense, that looks scary! I have no idea how much weight you plan to haul with that trailer, but that old steel looks WAY too thin compared to every 7K+ dump trailer I've ever seen or used. I also know that regardless of what weight a dump trailer is supposed to carry, it's super easy to overload them. A yard of stone usually weighs about 2 ton. In a 6' wide dump, that's 18" of stone all the way across for about 3 feet back. 2 yards (8,000 lbs) and a standard 6'x10' trailer only has a foot of stone on the whole floor and looks empty. You are usually already over the max weight of a 10K trailer at that point. Wet sand or dirt would be even worse.Most dumps are running heavy channel to resist the twist that comes when you put the body up on any sort of incline. That stuff you are using, looks like the old camper frame made from light gauge bent sheet. With out a closer look, I'd guess 14g or thinner, with out all the old rust.Most camper frames are super light, because they use the shell like a shear wall or truss to help resist the twisting and bending. They are usually a poor choice for converting into flatbeds, let alone a dump.I can't tell what machine that is that you are using, but it looks way undersized to weld up the heavy channel a project like this requires. I'm guessing it's a 110v machine that's fine for the sheetmetal that the original frame was made of, but undersized to weld real channel with gas, and borderline if it is a 180 amp 220v machine.This seriously looks like an accident waiting to happen. I can see this frame easily buckling under even moderate 4K loads under the right conditions..Last edited by DSW; 01-09-2010 at 08:16 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:And here's a few more. The trailer in front of my 41 WC-12 I built a few years ago. Light weight and strong (made from steel purlins). When we moved from N.C to S.C I built a 8' x 20' building on it, loaded it down with furniture. Since then I got rid of the mobile home hubs with new 6 lug hubs. Added fenders and a new paint job. Attached ImagesLincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:Hey DSW  I'll look at that frame again, maybe I could box it in. I still have more bracing to weld in place. I did stick weld the frame with my AC 225. I'm planning on switching axles with the ones from under the 16'er, their rated at 3500 ea. The ones under it now I'm afraid are to weak.  I'm not planning on carrying a lot of dirt or gravel in it. I do home remodeling, so mostly it would be debris from the jobs. I got tired of unloading in the 100 deg weather down here. A buddy of is going to load it up with  dirt so we can see if everything is going to go as planned before I haul anything down the road.Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:here's the 16'er Attached ImagesLincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:Originally Posted by scooter.  I'm not planning on carrying a lot of dirt or gravel in it. I do home remodeling, so mostly it would be debris from the jobs. I got tired of unloading in the 100 deg weather down here. A buddy of is going to load it up with  dirt so we can see if everything is going to go as planned before I haul anything down the road.
Reply:I hope you plan on making some changes before it's all done with.#1  change the cylinder around.  The way you have it is going to be extremely hard on the hinges and the front channel (see #2) when you first start to dump.  #2  the channel near where it looks like you want to mount the cylinder will fail.  channel only likes loads applied in one direction and that ain't it.#3  right now those front corners are the weakest spot in the pic.  They need to be beefed up somehow.  Gussets, box 'em in, wrap the tongue, just do something. Attached ImagesMy name's not Jim....
Reply:The geometry for a scissors ram would be better & doubling the front crossbeam & the bed would be best.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2The geometry for a scissors ram would be better .
Reply:Yeah, I vaguely remember reading something about a scissors ram on some piece of .............  anyway, the location seemed exactly right & would work for this thing too.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I wanted  a scissors ram to begin with. The money just isn't there. So I had this cly 4.5 bore 2.5 ram sitting around and tried to make this work.  If it doesn't work I'll have to let it sit until I have money to buy a new cylinder. The pump is questionable too, we ran it up to 1,200 psi. I see most are 2000-2500 psi. Remodeling work has slowed to a snails crawl.  I also work in a foundry, I'm the machinist, lab tech, and pattern maker repair guy.  The lab tech I replaced, had this position for 10 years. Work got slow, and they shoved him back to grinding and inspecting.   The plant is shutting the doors in about a month. So a hours drive to another job is in the future. There is nothing, I mean nothing else around here, almost all the plants have closed.  On the plus side I'm getting some of the old equipment, 6 x 48 belt sander,14' band saw, A few other things I have my eye on. The wife isn't to happy about me dragging more junk home. ( we have our place up for sale, gotta keep it neat)I value all the input from everyone, if changes have to be made they will be. I want to be safe out on the road.Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:The trailer you are building is set up exactly like the pro built one I have.Not too long after I got it I had a load of dirt (BIG load) on it and tried to dump. It tore the rear bed rail where the hinges mount and bent the cylinder mount cross member on the chassis.I cut out the bent up stuff and replaced it with heavier wall material and triangulated everything I could. The old wore out thing still hauls and dumps 4 tons.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Here's a few more newer pictures, tell me what you think. Scoot I thought you might like the UFO welcome center, this is off the  interstate on a county road. It's been a few years since I've been by that way, it's looking pretty rough now. Attached ImagesLincoln AC225Lincoln 135 migpacoxy/acy torch
Reply:Lookin pretty good, but I would beef up the area where the cylinder rod mountes to the floor. The floor will push up.I would a couple of more cross beams.Tim Beeker.
Reply:It's interesting how you added the struts to resist twist on the base mount.A more effective method would be to weld a similar set of angles tied to the mount, and several crossmembers towards the rear of the trailer, again in a triangular design terminating at the outside rails.The bolts are insufficient to resist too much force, at least that's what I think.By welding the assembly, with as much weld surface as possible on the base mount, and welding it to the crossmembers and side rails, you pick up a huge amount of strength from the combined strength of all the different members.I'm not sure if the base mount is sufficiently low enough to give the cylinder a good mechanical advantage at the beginning of the lift.  Any angle below horizontal is better than none though.  The greatest tearout force will occur at the beginning of the lift.  The cylinder is in a semi bind at that point.Most dumps without scissor lifts are generally a staged cylinder arrangement with a near vertical lift at the front of the bed.A scissor mount would be nicer, but hard to find good design pics for the proper geometry.All I can really say is to take a day, sit down and look at all the possible tearout points, and try to spread the load at those points.  Try to think in terms of direction the forces will take, and do your best to resist those forces."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:mid point crossmembers could be added if you cradled the cylinder.  Be like a frame with a drop point in mid section under the cylinder"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:In addition to what has been said, box in the channel in the area were the cylinder pins are and make pin bosses  or at least weld in some thick metal for the pins.Tough as nails and damn near as smart