uphill or downhill?

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I have recently posted a thread about starting welding and have had many good suggestions and have improved my welding to a point where my welding is now only crappy.  The projects I am working on are using 2" pipe, Lincoln AS-200 (at 50A), 1/8" 6011, 1/8" 7018 rods.  This is where I started, and with advice have gone to 3/32" 6013 and 3/32 7014 rods at 65A, 5/64" 6013 at 65A DCEN.  Things got a lot better with the smaller rods, although the 5/64" burned as quick as a fuse on a firecracker.  I am now aware of rod angle relative to the cut pipe, and this helps.  I also do as much welding on top as I can.  Unfortunately, on 2" pipe, that does not cover a lot of territory and I find myself wrapped around the pipe trying to weld the sides.That's a basic background to my crappy slag infused welding job.  Seriously, at least 60% of my welds are just filled with slag.  My question:  Sometimes I am bent over welding from the side of the pipe up to the top, dragging the rod, and sometimes I am kneeling and dragging the rod down from the top to the side.  Then I will flip the whole project over and repeat.Given the rods I have available, 6013, 7014, 7018, and 6011, should I weld uphill or downhill.  I understand that this may be different for each rod.  That's OK; just as long as I know how it shoud be done.  Then I can adjust to the rod, or pick another rod to adjust to my needs.
Reply:6013, 7014 and 7018 usually do best run up hill so you don't bury the slag in the bead. 6011 can be run either way because the slag is so thin and the rod burns hot enough to "cut" thru the slag and remove it.Understand running beads vertical is probably one of the trickiest things to learn. Guys at the tech school think they are doing great usually until they hit vertical welds. To really get decent vertical welds, you need to be able to read the puddle and react to it. Too many guys simply watch the shiny light and can't tell you what if anything is going on with the puddle. Add to that if you haven't been able to at least get some of the basics down ( rod angle, travel speed etc) on flat/ horizontal, you'll have to learn all that at the same time. Note all this gets even MORE complicated with small pipe where you have to constantly keep making adjustments as you go.Expect this will not go easy or fast to learn this way. Post up picts even if they are terribly ugly. It's hard to explain where someone is going wrong if you can't look at the problems yourself..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Like above stated, all those small rods you got run best uphill, which may complicate your burn through issues. I still believe in the 6011 as the rod to learn on, and as the best farm rod. With it, your slag is not going to hide your puddle, you can long arc, short arc, even arc gouge with it. It will run up hill, down hill, and sideways, it will tolerate rust, dirt and moisture better than any, but it is a telling rod. Any mistake is easy to see and the bead is easy to read.  You can run 6013 down hill, but it becomes more complicated with a weave. Running stringers downhill with sheetmetal is where 6013 down works best. Not for filling in small gaps.
Reply:Well, I guess I need to go back to the basics and practice, practice, practice.  DSW has recommended learning to read the puddle about 3 or 4 times now.  I get so concerned about where I'm going with the rod, so I don't burn a hole in something, that I don't bother looking behind for the puddle (let alone read it).I bought a pound of 5/64 6013 at TSC Tuesday and burned them all up yesterday in a couple of hours.  The smaller rod did help seeing that I was welding thin caps over the pipe to seal it.I'll drag out some leftover 3/32 7014 rods tomorrow and practice looking at the puddle, and see if I can read anything in it.
Reply:I forgot to ask, how do I post a picture on this site?
Reply:Below the quick reply box click on Go Advanced, below the new box is Manage Attachments, click on that.Leo
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearneI have recently posted a thread about starting welding and have had many good suggestions and have improved my welding to a point where my welding is now only crappy.  The projects I am working on are using 2" pipe, Lincoln AS-200 (at 50A), 1/8" 6011, 1/8" 7018 rods.  This is where I started, and with advice have gone to 3/32" 6013 and 3/32 7014 rods at 65A, 5/64" 6013 at 65A DCEN.  Things got a lot better with the smaller rods, although the 5/64" burned as quick as a fuse on a firecracker.  I am now aware of rod angle relative to the cut pipe, and this helps.  I also do as much welding on top as I can.  Unfortunately, on 2" pipe, that does not cover a lot of territory and I find myself wrapped around the pipe trying to weld the sides.That's a basic background to my crappy slag infused welding job.  Seriously, at least 60% of my welds are just filled with slag.  My question:  Sometimes I am bent over welding from the side of the pipe up to the top, dragging the rod, and sometimes I am kneeling and dragging the rod down from the top to the side.  Then I will flip the whole project over and repeat.Given the rods I have available, 6013, 7014, 7018, and 6011, should I weld uphill or downhill.  I understand that this may be different for each rod.  That's OK; just as long as I know how it shoud be done.  Then I can adjust to the rod, or pick another rod to adjust to my needs.
Reply:Uphill.http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000825140116 Lincoln Weldanpower Model # AC-225/DC-210/6 portable,LN-25 suitcase feeder,Harbor Freight 80 AMP Inverter DC Tig
Reply:you can run it, 7018, either way.   i run it up or down depending on what i'm doing.  issues with slag and puddle are the same running downhand as up; just reversed..
Reply:Thanks guys, I guess most of the stuff can go uphill.  Just to clarify, is this dragging the rod uphill, or pushing it uphill.  I saw a video training others to take a test by pushing a 7018 uphill.  Seems like that would make a big difference on the puddle.
Reply:Originally Posted by fdcmiamiyou can run it, 7018, either way.   i run it up or down depending on what i'm doing.  issues with slag and puddle are the same running downhand as up; just reversed..
Reply:i must have missed the part about heavy equipment.  let me read it again.
Reply:OK, I've got some pictures of some representative welds.  I believe that most of the welding done at this time was with 3/32" 6013 or 6014 (I bought a pound of each to practice).  I would have run them at 65 amps DCEP.The picture in the middle (I think) has the end cap welded on the pipe with 5/64" 6013 at 65 amps DCEN.  These were the only welds I ran in this mode.The other welds will show some of the slag that is permeated through the welds.  Most of my welds will look like this.  I can go over them again, but it doesn't get any better.  There are some uglier shots I could take, but I don't remember what conditions they were made in or with, so even if you could tell me what I did wrong, it wouldn't help me much if I didn't know what i did in the first place. Attached Images
Reply:I would clean the area to be welded up with your angle grinder. I dont get into much stick welding (mostly all mig for me), but I can say for sure that it will help there. Grind 'er up and make it all shiny where you plan to weld at.*edit* Looked again and saw some marks in the first pic. extend beyond the area where you are welding. Or if it were we i would just grind up a few inches on the end of the pipe that you plan to weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by ranger_5_0I would clean the area to be welded up with your angle grinder. I dont get into much stick welding (mostly all mig for me), but I can say for sure that it will help there. Grind 'er up and make it all shiny where you plan to weld at.
Reply:Thanks DSW, I think you and I are on the same wavelength.  When I started, my biggest fear was blowing an unrepairable hole in the pipe and I was really moving the stick along.  Got really crappy welds.  The more I learned, the slower I got, but I just couldn't get rid of the slag that was already there and came to the same conclusion that you just mentioned.  Had a really good lesson yesterday as I tried to fill a gap in the heel of a 45 degree joint.  Real tight spot and I was welding in a weird angle.  Actually payed attention to the puddle this time and watched it pool up and roll down to the bottom pipe so I stopped before it just poured off onto the floor.  When I lifted my hood, what I saw looked different.  And, when I brushed it (using the second of two grinders I had out) it looked even worse.  Really got fooled by the puddle on that one.  More practice coming up on pieces of scrap pipe.  Gonna learn that puddle.On a different note:  Assume I get a good weld (or reasonable good) around the pipe using a 5/64 6013.  As you had mentioned, this is easier for me to work with right now.  I am going to expect that the amount of steel I had put down will not be enough.  Can I expect the dynamics of the pipe to have changed enough that I will not have to worry so much about burning a hole in the cut end?  If so,  what would be the best way to proceed?  Is it time to bump up the size of the rod or switch to a 7018 or 6011.  Or, do I just keep going round with the same rods until there is enough?Still looking forward to that day, but every weld I learn something.
Reply:Sorry, didn't notice the edits on the pics.  That's cool.  Thanks.
Reply:I learned on 6" sch80 pipe and you could take your time on it, but a lot of what i do is 2 to 4" butt weld. i have found that running a 3/32 at about 65A is the ticket, i learned to run the 3/32 at about 90A and was having to drag race through the weld to keep it from burning through on the 2-4". The funny thing is, that over time, vertical is the best and most fav position i do. running 65A allows you to take your time without worry of burning through. After a lot of practice, you learn to read the puddle well enough that you can tell if you are getting close to burning through. BTW, I have also been able to weld stainless at a 90 degree angle, it is REALLY hard, and you do have to break the arc about every 1" or so to keep it from dropping out, but it is possible, may not be xray quality, but it gets it done. Personally, i have found that if you run a 3/32 316 at 45A, it kinda acts like running a 6010 so that the 1/8" has something to grab onto. On another not, be sure that you NEVER get a drop or big BB fall in your glove or cloths when welding SS over head. It will burn you like no other, got really bad 2nd degree burns on about a 2"X1" spot on my wrist in 2 spots in a total of about 1 to 2 seconds when it fell in thereLast edited by Nick_31; 02-11-2012 at 09:05 PM.
Reply:burn from BB Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by mshearne Had a really good lesson yesterday as I tried to fill a gap in the heel of a 45 degree joint.  Real tight spot and I was welding in a weird angle.  Actually payed attention to the puddle this time and watched it pool up and roll down to the bottom pipe so I stopped before it just poured off onto the floor.  When I lifted my hood, what I saw looked different.  And, when I brushed it (using the second of two grinders I had out) it looked even worse.  Really got fooled by the puddle on that one.  More practice coming up on pieces of scrap pipe.  Gonna learn that puddle.On a different note:  Assume I get a good weld (or reasonable good) around the pipe using a 5/64 6013.  As you had mentioned, this is easier for me to work with right now.  I am going to expect that the amount of steel I had put down will not be enough.  Can I expect the dynamics of the pipe to have changed enough that I will not have to worry so much about burning a hole in the cut end?  If so,  what would be the best way to proceed?  Is it time to bump up the size of the rod or switch to a 7018 or 6011.  Or, do I just keep going round with the same rods until there is enough?Still looking forward to that day, but every weld I learn something.
Reply:Good advice.  I'll get some more practice in tomorrow if the welder doesn't run out of gas.  I have noticed a big difference in welding behaviors after I have been on on joint for a while.  Having problems, i had assumed that the pipe was getting too hot and I started moving faster and all goes downhill from there.  I have found that burning an inch or two on a joint and then moving to another to do the same, brushing them all, and then repeating made for better looking work.As far as consistency goes - that's one of my favorite words.  Having a science background I know that changing more than one variable at the same time is almost a waste of time.  I think the next time I buy rods that I will get 10# of 3/32 6013.  I liked the 5/64", but I go through them too fast.  If I practice welding small cut pieces of pipe onto flat metal I should get better at avoiding burning holes.  I think the 3/32 will allow me to go slow enough to watch everything at one time, and still be able to lay down enough steel.  I think the first (or second, after speed) thing I will work on is where to point the stick to prevent long arcing to the cut side.Just remembered, I'm out of 6013s and 7014s and all I have left is the 1/8" 6011s.  I'll have to think about that.