Large Storage Cabinet with Doors-> Need Advice!

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Hello all, I am completely new to this.  I've never welded before.  My plan is to buy whatever type of welder (i think arc) i need for a project.  Attached is an image of what Im trying to do, sorry its not to scale but hopefully you get the idea. It will sit on casters too.I plan on practicing a bit before I start this project.  But I need some questions answered.1) What type of welder do I need? I'll be running it from home.2) Basically, I need to know what size/thickness square tube I should be using???The center bar needs to be able to support some weight...maybe 50 lbs or so.The left cabinet shelf (didnt draw it, but it will be half way up) needs to support maybe 100 or so.The bottom floor needs to support maybe 200.3) Side 1,2,3,4 will be doors. What thickness should I use? Hinges?4) The side walls and the interior walls also need sheeting...what type should I use?5) The left cabinet will have one shelf, half way up (didnt draw it) what should I use?6) The doors all need to be airtight, I was planning on using some sort of weather stripping.7) Basically, I need to know what size/thickness square bar I should be using???8) Any idea how much it might cost, not including the welder?9) What do people use to get all the right angles and stuff?Anyways, thanks in advance for the help.  Thought Id come here with some of my questions.  Originally I was going to build the whole thing out of wood but it seems like this might be a better idea.  What do you guys think? Attached Images
Reply:Welcome!That's a very challenging project. What will you use it for? Large sheets of steel can get ugly fast when welds shrink. It will be a noisy thing too. Wood construction is probably not a bad choice.Of course I don't want to discourage you from taking up welding so here are some answers.In general, 1/16" or 16 gauge sheet steel and tubing with a 16 gauge wall will be strong enough and thick enough to weld. 1.5" or 2" square tube for the main frame and 1" square tube for the door frames. Getting a large door weldment to come out flat would be a challenge for me.  Have a shop with a shear cut the metal square and that will square up the structure. At the door frames you will have to make accurate diagonal measurements and be very careful your welds don't pull it out of square.  www.mcmaster.com has door seals, hinges, etc.You will need a MIG welder ready for gas.http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...+823700+765791A 40cf bottle of gas is about $140 and refills are about $30.Metal cutting chop saw or horizontal bandsaw, 4.5" angle grinder, some c-clamps. How are you planning to paint it? Once you get your welder, make a miniature version as an enclosed base for a welding cart. That should demonstrate some ot what the large cabinet entails.Lincoln SA200, HH135, Lencospot, HF80 Inverter, Rockwell 11x35 lathe, HF drill mill, Kama 554 tractor w/ FEL & BH, Belarus 250AS, lot's of Chinese tools
Reply:Perhaps I'm reading too much into your questions. It sounds like you really don't have a good background building things. A cabinet with doors is not the easiest thing in the world to build, even out of wood, and a metal one is much more complex usually. A decent set of doors that will stand up to moderate use will take a fair amount of construction skill and design to have them work right. Take a look at a set of metal doors on a locker or utility truck body and most are made with a metal brake. Thats not usually a DIY tool, especially if you want a 7' high door, thats 2-4' wide. I don't know if you plan single or double doors. Wood is an easier material to generally work with for beginners and those with limited tools. 3/4" plywood will do fine for doors in that size, even 1/2" if you can accept the flex it will have over a large door. You can build this with basic hand/power tools, totaling less than what a cheap Mig would cost. A bit of pre planning and you can probably get the home center to cut the plywood sheets to size straighter than you can on their panel saw, but you may loose a bit in size accuracy. 18"- 4 foot wide doors, 7' high can be easily ordered all prehung with hinges and frames for wood construction.  If you can live with 6'-8" high doors instead, these are usually stock sizes rather than special order. Basic interior doors may fit the bill, and if you need a tighter fit, then use exterior prehung doors.You say "air tight". To really build an "air tight" box with doors, this goes from moderately simple to very complex. The doors alone will be one of your biggest issues. To get an air tight seal, the doors will need to be fairly well designed and constructed. I'm guessing that you just want a door that seals out most dirt and dust, and thats not really "air tight" and allows zero air inside or out.  A bit more info on exactly what you are trying to use this for might help..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hey Guys, thanks for replying.Ok, basically its going to be used as a large dehumidifier for fruits and fruit snacks.  When I say airtight, it doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough.  If I can just get the frame close enough, I can use weather stripping for the sealing of the edges.For the doors, a single door for each of those four panels would work.  I hear you saying that getting a full metal door to sit flush would be difficult, I can see that. Maybe I could just build the whole frame with 2" 1/16 thick square tube like you said then maybe bold on some hinges or weld them if I can figure it out.  But instead of heavy steel doors, I could use wood for that part.  My concern is just being able to build a solid frame for this whole thing. With strong welds and good right angles.The reason I just started with the welding idea is that after I priced all the lumber, all the hinges, casters, strong-ties, brackets, screws and bolts for a wooden unit, I thought well maybe I can do it with steel and get a welder out of it.I've always wanted to learn to weld anyways.  As far as my mechanical aptitude...Ive been working on cars for many years.  While this isn't fabrication or building experience, I definitely am comfortable tackling stuff like this.  Gotta learn sometime.Plus I figured if I came out good with this cabinet, maybe I could build all kinds of stuff for my house Also, real quick.  Mentioned getting a MIG welder...is that what will suit this job best? I hear so much talk of arc welding.Thanks for the help!Oh and PS: I looked on craigslist and ebay for mig welders...seems like there could be some deals.  What size would I need for jobs like this? How do the sizes/types of welders match up with the types of jobs im looking to do? Like coffee tables, bar stools, tables...stuff like that.Last edited by B-Nasty; 02-08-2010 at 02:07 PM.
Reply:If you're working with exlusively 16 gauge material, then you can use a smal MIG welder that runs on 110 volts.  Buy one that allows you to use shielding gas, as I think welding with solid wire filler metal and shielding gas is easier to learn.  I haven't priced welders in that area for a while, but this miller welder would get the job donehttp://www.millerwelds.com/products/...c_140_autoset/At $800 it represents the upper end of the price range. Lincoln and others like Harbor frieght also sell these small hobby MIG welders.  Go cheap if you don't mind trading quality for price when it comes to tools.  Look for a used one and might find a deal, wiht all the accessories, for half the cost of the new Miller unit.You could also look for a used stick welder, a Lincoln AC225 "tombstone" or miller Thunderbolt machine on Ebay or craigslist.  These will take 220 volts from a dryer type outlet.  One of these will run you about $150.  Stickwelding is slower and harder to learn.  MIG welding is in many respects ideally suited to welding thin sheet metal.You'll also need all the accessories, safety gear, and such.  Don't take shortcuts here.  Get a helmet, jacket, and welding gloves.  Don't be one of the knuckleheads you see on TV; welding in short sleeves, barehanded, and peaking through their fingers to try and block the arc light.A wooden cabinet will cost you less in time, and money for tools.  But if you can come up with some other projects that need a welder, you might be able to rationalize the cost of a welder.Last piece of advice...before you start your first project, take some scrap and practice making the kinds of welds you want to use in the cabinet.  Mitred butt joints, outside corners, etc.  Figure out how to set the machine to give you good results, what angles, travel speeds, also work.  Since you're building something big, think about how you're going to move it when you're done, or build it in place.  Welding with the joint flat is by far and away easiest.  But a little MIG welder can certainly be used to make vertical or overhead welds, 'out of position'.  If you have a friend welds for a living, get them to show you the basics.  A few minutes of demo time with a skilled welder will really flatten out your learning curve.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:hmmmm3'x7' tall  "Air Tight"Go get 2 broken refrigeratorsYou'll be miles a head. You can use the Welder to fabricate the shelves inside.Arc welder= any welder that uses Electricity to weld.Mig welder uses electricity Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Perfect.  I started pricing some of those Mig welders you mentioned.Im sure the higher the amperage, the stronger or thicker the metal it will weld, but like what amperage is gonna suit me?  I can't imagine doing anything bigger than what I'd mentioned.  But basically, what size amperage would be good to start with?  Like I said, Im just looking to do all these tables and basic stuff to start.  Besides the safety equipment, what other essential tools am I gonna need? Im broke these days, would my concrete garage floor suffice to start building this stuff? Like as in a flat surface? Whats up with these welders magnets and stuff? I have some good power tools, would they be ok to cut the metal and grind down the slag or whatever?And as far as 220v vs 110v, I have a 240v outlet in my apartment's garage, so would I be better suited to come at this project from that angle? I might have to buy a higher amperage breaker and run some better wire for this project but thats no problem.Also, what kind of steel should I be buying? Whats up with the 6013 and 7014 and all those numbers? Alloys or something?!Sorry...didnt have a Dad around to teach me stuff, but I manage As far as the wood being cheaper to build as a cabinet, you know it might...but it is still gonna be expensive and possibly close.  Like I said, once you add up all the metal pieces for the joints and all that, it really does add up.  I was thinking about going to Industrial Metal Supply down here and pricing some long pieces of 2" steel, maybe I can just have em cut it for me...I wouldn't be surprised if the totals come out to being the same.I actually thought about the fridges idea, but their not big enough, and dont have the right dimensions.Oh and is this right:Mig welders can run on "Flux Core" wire or bare wire using gas for shielding.Stick Welders are kinda like flux core except they use "sticks of flux core" that constantly have to be changed.Both are arc welders.Last edited by B-Nasty; 02-08-2010 at 07:51 PM.
Reply:Once you start pricing the Material I bet the Free Fridges on CL start looking real goodIf you have access to the 240v receptacle and it has the capacity- 30amps- then look for a 240v machine.Twice the machine for just a few dollars more than a 120v machine.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Yeah, I got no problems getting another breaker, running some thick wire to a 240v receptacle.You know any websites that advertise the kind of metal im looking for just to get a ballpark idea? I obviously would be getting it local but just to see? Don't get off work til tmr...
Reply:Lots of sturdy frame and shelving units are made from old bedframes and bolted together. Use shelf material that allows air to circulate, but avoid don't let any galvanized or cad plating come in contact with food (thoroughly check with some trusted source for safe materials.) Use diagonal bracing on all the enclosed sides, and use  manufactured metal house doors (probably used.)I like the idea of recycling old refrigerators, if not the whole thing then at leaste the shelving and the flat sheet metal surfaces for siding. Personally I think I would use corrogated plastic roofing to enclose it held on with pop rivets.
Reply:Went to Industrial Metal Supply today for pricing.  Just as I thought, it would be almost the same price to build out of wood versus getting a welder and buying all the metal.  So I think thats what Im gonna do.All prices are for 80feet2"x2" 16ga = $132         14ga = $166         13ga = $1762"x3" 14ga = $186          1/8" = $2162" x4" 16ga = $226          14ga = $224What size should I get?Im also looking for an answer to the "what else do I need" question to be able to build this thing. I need to make it as clean as possible with the angles and cuts and whatnot.
Reply:Where are you located?IMS is usually on the Higher end of the price scale.Call M&K Steel in Gardenahttp://www.mkmetal.net/Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by B-NastyIm also looking for an answer to the "what else do I need" question to be able to build this thing. I need to make it as clean as possible with the angles and cuts and whatnot.
Reply:I noticed that you left the material for the side walls out of your cost estimate...  You're going to need to add a couple 4x8 sheets to that materials list.  Also, you priced 80 feet.  Are those coming in 20 foot cut lengths?  If so, you need to consider what you can effectively get out of each piece based on lengths you'll be cutting.  Also, 80 feet won't be enough to construct that with cross bracing, etc.Add a few hundred for the welder, a few hundred for gas and consumables... this will quickly escalate higher than you're anticipating.  Factor in a good bit of scrap since you're just learning how to weld.  You will in all likelihood be doing a lot of grinding and blowing holes in sheet metal.  It's just the reality of being a beginner welder.
Reply:Well this is what i would do go to youre local sheetmetal shop .Get a price for cut and bent panels that you need and then you can put them together  at home . It will be faster and less of a pain to do for you .