is the crack repairable?

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so i have a hairline crack on my sportbike frame its on the cast aluminum part will post a pic but wanted to no if this is repairable, the crack does not penatrate the back of the frame only the front and under thanks everyone for looking!! http://i40.tinypic.com/357ko69.jpghttp://i41.tinypic.com/okboe8.jpgLast edited by portugal100; 03-10-2012 at 10:15 PM.
Reply:While I am a very experienced rider and do a lot of work on them, I am not a motorcycle mechanic and have zero experience with repairing aluminum m/c frames, so temper my following words with that in mind.The good news is that your crack appears in an alloy that is weldable, as evidenced by the weld shown adjacent to the crack.  If it was welded once, it can be welded again.However the bad news is that repairable or not- whatever caused the crack; be it excessive strain due to poor materials/construction, excessive strain due to geometry or how you ride it, the crack is probably going to recur even after you weld it.   Unless you attribute the failure to a single event that is unlikely to occur again (i.e. you won't be trying the 18 foot Knieval-jump ever again) it will probably repeat because you aren't addressing the cause, just a symptom. And finally, the semi-bad news is that choice of filler rod and repair method will depend on knowing the specific alloy in the frame.  Doing it properly (grinding it out and pre-heating if necessary) will likely require disassembly of the frame, which on most bikes is a lot of work.As you can no doubt appreciate, repairs like this on a motorcycle can be far more critical to safety than welding a fender on a pickup.  Frame failure while banked hard in a corner at 100 is likely going to be catastrophic.  So consider the liability you face if the future owner "buys it" because your repair failed.That said, if it was my own bike, I'd grind it out and have at it. If it fails again, I buy a new frame and didn't lose anything but a little time and some TIG rods.Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:[B]"...My old man, he's a television repairman.  He has an ULTIMATE set of tools.  I can fix it!"  [/B] Attached ImagesLincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Find a used frame.  I would not bet my azz on it.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:If it was MY bike I would fix it. It it is your bike frame and you want to pay me to fix it.... can't say from pictures over the interweb.
Reply:That IS A AIUMINUM FRAME STAY A WAY FORM IT GET NEW ONE!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by T E BThat IS A AIUMINUM FRAME STAY A WAY FORM IT GET NEW ONE!!!!
Reply:I don't know about sport bikes, but Harley's you can get replacement frames from a dealer. They require you cut off the neck with the numbers and they send that to the factory. They will then send you a replacement frame with your numbers stamped on it, that way no one busts your balls about numbers not matching like you would have if you bought a used frame. If Harley does it, I have to imagine that other manufacturers do something like that also. Good Luck.kidtigger24  They think I’m crazy, but I know better. It is not I who am crazy. It is I who am MAD!
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardIf it was MY bike I would fix it. It it is your bike frame and you want to pay me to fix it.... can't say from pictures over the interweb.
Reply:new frame is my last option sence money is tight right now
Reply:Is that a gxxr?Everyone here can get a little crazy about repairs like these... I would weld it up and not worry about it afterwards, if it were my bike.
Reply:I could fix it and make it better than new.  I know of two other old pharts on this site that could do it too. It's just welding.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:I would fix it and say "Have Fun!"...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by kustomizingkidIs that a gxxr?Everyone here can get a little crazy about repairs like these... I would weld it up and not worry about it afterwards, if it were my bike.
Reply:I think it would be nice to see the other end of the crack.  It would also be nice to know if it passes through something that is machined with a bearing race or something..
Reply:Originally Posted by portugal100i think im going to give it a shoot an take it to a shop an get it fixed if it fails new frame
Reply:Originally Posted by stefuelI think it would be nice to see the other end of the crack.  It would also be nice to know if it passes through something that is machined with a bearing race or something..
Reply:Where are you located?
Reply:Originally Posted by portugal100nope its a yamaha R6
Reply:I think that everyone here would benefit from a wide angle shot or a pic from further back so they can see the rest of the storyGordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Can you show a unzoomed pic.Shake and Bake
Reply:Weld it up youll be fine. I have broke frames due to stunting them in parking lots..SO i am hard on sport bike frames. Keep a eye on it. Even if it were to crack again the thing wont go crazy. the motor is also structural in a rocket so it getting to crazy is unlikely .. Here are some pics of my adventures. If the rewelded frames can survive this . yours can survive  normal service Owner G&S Mobile Welding & Millwright Services, LLCSpencerville, Ohio Adult Ed. Instructor at Apollo Career Center Lima, Ohio
Reply:What I just love:  seeing a guy looking for help and his post sitting all evening with no responses.  So you take the time to type a long, well articulated response and then the OP ignores it, doesn't bother to thank you (or anyone else that took time out of their day to help him), in fact doesn't even acknowledge your post whatsoever.  I see Portugal100 is new and probably won't stick around here which is just as well for him because my G-A-F meter for him is pegged in the red zone.Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:I own 3 motorcycles.   Picture my self flying down the road going 130 mph thinking about that welded crack.  Just couldn't do it.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I really think some of you are over thinking this repair. I have welded a lot of cracks like this on motorcycle frames for years, aluminum and steel. I have back halved a lot of drag bike frames and I have extended a lot of aluminum and steel swing arms.Here are some pictures of my 1987 GSXR1100 bike swing arm I extended 4". It is ridden on the street and the drag strip by me for many years. Best 1/4 mile was 9.84 seconds at 138 mph with a  7" M/T slick at 8lbs of air. Have been 163mph timed with radar.First two pictures are of the swing arm extension I did, the next three are factory welds Attached Imageswww.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch'sAquafire - there probably is a reason there was no response to your post. 1)  You tell him you have NO experiance doing this repair , but then go into detail trying to explain what to do it with ?????2) What gives you the right to think that, do to this post , that he will not be on this site long ???3) With responses as you posted i could see why he would think twice - theres no reason for that kind of a response . Especially to a new member...4) As far as YOUR   G-A-F meter - most likely no one cares where it's at - the post wasnt directed to you alone.portugal 100 - on a public site as this is , some comments have to be overlooked. There is many very experianced members here who can and will give honest advise. Good luck with your repair and we look forward to hearing about your progress.
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416I really think some of you are over thinking this repair. I have welded a lot of cracks like this on motorcycle frames for years, aluminum and steel.
Reply:By the way, what's a "GAF" meter??? Go Away Fast?????Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Funny, pics showing more detail seem to be hard to come by.  I get nervous about people holding their cards close to their chest and wanting advise.Gordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Thanks for what you thought was astute advice, Rat, however you completely missed my point:  common courtesy dictates that when people offer assistance (not just me, but everyone that responded), an expression of gratitude is in order.  And I base the comment about him not staying here long on the evidence that he joined March 10th without an introduction (his first post was to solicit help) and has had no activity on the site since the following day. There appears to be no interest in welding/fabricating;  simply a kid with a sport bike that wants free advice.  Another "join-up, milk the board for free advice and leave without offering anything, not even so much as a thank you" member.  THAT is what I'm complaining about and what I had hoped most readers would grasp.  Hopefully I've made it explicit enough for you to now understand. Mechanic416:  beautiful work, there.Lincoln AC225 & MigPak 140, Lincoln Magnum SpoolGun, Miller Spectrum 375-X Plasma, Syncrowave 200 TIG, Millermatic 252 MIG, Miller Digital Elite, General 7x12" horiz/vert bandsaw, 3' box/pan brake, 20 ton press, milling machine, 12x28 lathe, etc.
Reply:That frame was probably heat treated after fab. So, if you do repairs, you may need to re-heat treat.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Thank you Aquafire for the complement.  And I think you are right he hasn't been on to thank anyone or follow up on his question.But some of us did learn something from it I think I really don't think they heat treat the frames. They have to give and twist under hi horsepower launches and in tight turns, also the motor is part of the frame these days, so if you heat treat the frame it will make it hard and more pron to cracking. Think about it this way a impact socket is soft and a chrome plated hand socket is hard which one will crack first?www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:But a motorcycle frame needs to and return to its original shape, like a spring.  Springs are heat treated.
Reply:Yes you are right to say that, but their are all kinds of heat treatment.A aluminum bike frame is made in a jig and mig welded by a machine then it is sent in a oven and heated then cooled. But it is not to (heat treat as in make hard), it is to make all the aluminum, frame and welds the same or as close as the same compound to relieve stress that would cause cracks at the welds.Wow i need a  after that Now if you look at a bike frame you will see that the frame is shinny and the welds are not because they don't polish the frame after it is made. It was polished before it was welded.Most cracks I see and get to repair are in the cast gussets and looking at the pictures that is what I think is cracked, also because it is not smooth like the piece welded to it.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:I've built complete bike frames.  Ive welded dozens.  when You live and work in a small town and you are the best welder around you get lots of good work. I would beef that area up a little just because if it broke once it wouldn't hurt to make it twice as strong. Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416Yes you are right to say that, but their are all kinds of heat treatment.A aluminum bike frame is made in a jig and mig welded by a machine then it is sent in a oven and heated then cooled. But it is not to (heat treat as in make hard), it is to make all the aluminum, frame and welds the same or as close as the same compound to relieve stress that would cause cracks at the welds.
Reply:We were talking about a motorcycle frame not a mountain bike.   My boys raced BMX bikes 30 years ago and broke a lot of frames, cranks, handle bars,etc these were made from very thin wall aluminum tubing and was tig welded by hand and only weighed like 6 pounds, they only had to hold up to "kid power"  not 175 horse power.      If you are going to QUOTE me saying I am wrong you better back it up with facts as I have been to the Kawasaki factory and seen how they are made!!www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416Yes you are right to say that, but their are all kinds of heat treatment.A aluminum bike frame is made in a jig and mig welded by a machine then it is sent in a oven and heated then cooled. But it is not to (heat treat as in make hard), it is to make all the aluminum, frame and welds the same or as close as the same compound to relieve stress that would cause cracks at the welds.Wow i need a  after that Now if you look at a bike frame you will see that the frame is shinny and the welds are not because they don't polish the frame after it is made. It was polished before it was welded.Most cracks I see and get to repair are in the cast gussets and looking at the pictures that is what I think is cracked, also because it is not smooth like the piece welded to it.
Reply:Originally Posted by mechanic416If you are going to QUOTE me saying I am wrong you better back it up with facts