Brewing Cart

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So, a friend of a friend heard that I am in school for welding and wants advice on how he, with no welding experience at all, can weld together something like this:He thinks the cart could be done with mild steel and wants to do the piping in 3/4" to 1/2" diameter stainless (!!!) steel. (I'm not sure if I have been successful in talking him down to sticking with copper as he has had some experience in copper brazing from a past plumbing DIY job.)The carts he has looked at online retail for about $3,000.He wants my advice on what he would need to weld this, and what (MIG?) welder he should get on craigslist so he can do this all himself in hopes of saving money. Considering he's estimating 1,000+ lbs on the cart, how critical are the welds and would he be able to do this all with no welding experience? If I 'help' by building it for him, which welding technique should I use? What thickness of mild steel should I be looking at using?
Reply:I will say this, you can't just jump into welding stainless.  I would advise him to stick with copper.With 1,000 lbs on the cart, I would make it out of a 1.5" square tubing, 1/8" wall.   But I would need to see the design, layout he is looking for in order to give a better answer.Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:The cart is a pretty basic project.  But the items carried on it are specialized.  I can easily see how the favor is going to be repaid though.  have fun with it
Reply:Brewing carts don't hold 1,000+ pounds....A 15 gallon kettle only weighs about 150 lbs when full. Mash tun, hot water tank, and boil kettle- 450 lbs total. And that is if they are all filled to the brim. A couple of pumps at 5 lbs a piece and various accessories. 500 lbs tops.If he's looking to build the one in the first pic, there's not much to it. Is that a ten gallon kettle sitting on it? The one in the second pic doesn't even have a mash tun on it. Tell him to take a look at the forums on morebeer.com or northernbrewer.com for better ideas.You're in welding school why dont you tell him how to weld it up?SS is just for showing off. Build it out of mild steel and paint it.
Reply:I'm with RubberFrog, build it out of mild structural steel and use beverage grade tubing for your liquid lines.  Since your friend has no idea what he's doing, he won't be spending a lot of cash on something he will change in 2 months or may never use at all.I made a 3 tier system out of 2 x 2 x 1/8" angle and it's more than I really needed and I have 3 keggles that I use.  Also, all my piping is beverage tubing except things like my chiller.  Stainless tubing is ridiculous.
Reply:A mobile still .... nice.
Reply:Brew Your Own magazine has plans for them.  The cart is a few bucks, the pumps, kettles and controller are the big bucks.  1/2 kegs make nice kettles, cut the top out with a plasma (with beer  or water in the keg).  Weld in a stainless fitting at the bottom.   I use a 1/4 keg to mash in, but its a little small for 11 gallon batches.Brewing saturday.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks for answering guys.I guess I should have waited to get his images before posting my question! His advice asking was over the phone so the pics in my first post were what I thought he was talking about. He knows a lot about brewing, I'm the one who knows nothing. Here is the type he wants to emulate:And here is his plan:The reason he thinks it would need to take 1,000 lbs of weight is the 55 gal hot water drum (600lb), with the 35 gal mash drum on a shelf on-top of that, and then burners that would hold two 15 gal boil kettles on the lower shelf/half.Between what my instructor said and comments here I'm leaning towards the square-tubing and using MIG or TIG. Any other advice would be welcome.
Reply:Originally Posted by RubberFrogYou're in welding school why dont you tell him how to weld it up?
Reply:Originally Posted by EmberfoxLong answer: Because I'd rather not learn later that all his expensive brewing equipment and his specialty brew was ruined thanks to the thing collapsing becuase of  bad welds becuase this was his first time welding ever, with a probably not very good machine he scrounged from craigslist, and maybe even using the wrong filler material, and all the welds having undercutting, and gods know what else.Short answer: I'd rather have his brew sculpture project succeed.
Reply:I'd stay the hell away from him just because he is going for large volume and will get a visit from John Law sooner or later.  Those deals generally come back to haunt you.
Reply:Old Fart,  the federal law is 100 gallons per person in a houshold, maximum of 200 of beer.David  Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Read somewhere that there are 3 states that outlaw home brewing. That would be Miss, Okla, and can't recall, the third.I am into home brewing and have made hooch (prison term) when in OK as youngster. Now in Tx where is legal (not necessarily for that reason.)Each state has the right to allow or not allow home brewing and still  be in compliance with federal law. If they choose to allow home brewing , the max allowed by federal law is as David R states in above.Last edited by scopx; 03-05-2010 at 07:39 AM.Lincoln Crackerbox-stickMiller RoughneckSmall OXY/ACT PortableLarge OXY/ACT PortableCentury 160 Amp Mig
Reply:Home brewing beer was legalized under Jimmy Carter.... Johnny Law isn't coming after hobby brewers.
Reply:forget beer, i may or may not be building somthing that makes a brew that will really put hair on your chest. lolRealgear 140 MIGMore DeWalt tools that I prolly needDIY 160 amp 40 OCV MOT Stick Welder
Reply:I can see several ways of building this. If I wanted to play it safe and keep tube sizes down, I'd use 6 casters instead of 4 to support the weight. Most of your weight will be on the side with the 600lbs.I'm not sure from the way you sketched it if the plan is for a drum on the bottom as in the middle sketch, or a tank like the lower sketch seems to show. A tank is more work, but will act as its own support, Either use heavy walls and use the tank to support the top shelf or weld angle iron direct to the corners to make the frame part of the tank. If the plan is to use a drum, then you want to transfer that round load to the square frame. You can use plate ribs like what I sketched in the middle pict and add a flat to the top to help spread the load or you can build a frame similar to whats used to tip 55 gal oil drums. They've got almost the same weight you will need to support.I'd mig the frame myself, unless I was building an intergal tank. The tank I would tig for 2 reasons. #1 I'd get a better seal on the joints most likely. #2 It would most likely end up out of SS or alum anyways and tig would work best there for me. Attached Images.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:send him over to http://www.homebrewtalk.com. there's a bunch of threads there covering just about every question he could have
Reply:Originally Posted by SpyGuyMore to the truth answer:  You want some free brew for payment after you weld it up for him.
Reply:Originally Posted by rustywranglerI will say this, you can't just jump into welding stainless.  I would advise him to stick with copper.With 1,000 lbs on the cart, I would make it out of a 1.5" square tubing, 1/8" wall.   But I would need to see the design, layout he is looking for in order to give a better answer.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI can see several ways of building this. If I wanted to play it safe and keep tube sizes down, I'd use 6 casters instead of 4 to support the weight. Most of your weight will be on the side with the 600lbs. [...]
Reply:There's no need to do any SS welding, he should use ready-made or easily converted vessels for HLT, MLT and BK. Ditto on the mild steel, square tube.  Mine's 9 years old and you could prop a car up with it.