Bale lift help

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I need some advice..... The vertical trolley on this bale lift binds up, not a big surprise given that the load is about 1500lbs and cantilevered off the end of the spike.Is there any way to fix this? Most bale lifts work by just tilting the bale, however I need the bale to be 3' off the ground to load it into a feeder.  I dont have access to a tractor so I need some way to make this work. Attached Images
Reply:Does it have some sort of roller system or is it just metal on metal????Come try it out and stay a while.
Reply:Currently just metal on metal.....Any advice on what to use for rollers?  I was thinking small bearings but would rather not spend alot of cash.  Would changing the the contact area of the metal help? It goes up and down fine with no load.
Reply:If you don't want to go through the process of rebuilding the slide with rollers and the cost involved I might suggest getting some strips of 1/4 or 3/8 in Teflon that you could bolt to your tubing to provide a slippery surface moving up the channel instead of metal on metal.Harold MulderMiller 211 AutosetHTP 201 Invertig with water coolerHardinge Cataract Quick Change Lathe
Reply:I agree w/ the above comment, some rollers will help that baby slide up and down.  Something like this would be easy to adapt and work well:http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-and-ro...arings/=6ch36qI haven't dealt with those huge bales of hay before, how sturdy are they if you tilt them onto their side?  I was wondering if you could lay down a couple tie down straps, tip the bale onto them, then tilt your assembly + poker into the middle of it and wrap the tie down straps around it.  You would have to make a pivioting joint at the bottom (where you currently have that little gusset) then use your winch to rotate the whole assembly back up by moving it to the bed of your truck where those cables appear to go.  On second thought, you would need to leave the current setup the way it is, and ADD another arm that pivoted at the bottom.  You'd have to put a pulley at the top of the vertical arm you currently have to get some upward force to pull it and the bale up.  If the bales aren't that sturdy you could add a horizontal member so you could have tie downs running 2 directions to hold it together better.Did that make any sense? Attached ImagesLast edited by mot krig; 03-23-2010 at 04:10 PM.Millermatic 135Syncrowave 250
Reply:Is that stout enough to handle a round bale? It doesnt look very safe for transport.
Reply:Originally Posted by mot krigI agree w/ the above comment, some rollers will help that baby slide up and down.  Something like this would be easy to adapt and work well:http://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-and-ro...arings/=6ch36qI haven't dealt with those huge bales of hay before, how sturdy are they if you tilt them onto their side?  I was wondering if you could lay down a couple tie down straps, tip the bale onto them, then tilt your assembly + poker into the middle of it and wrap the tie down straps around it.  You would have to make a pivioting joint at the bottom (where you currently have that little gusset) then use your winch to rotate the whole assembly back up by moving it to the bed of your truck where those cables appear to go.  On second thought, you would need to leave the current setup the way it is, and ADD another arm that pivoted at the bottom.  You'd have to put a pulley at the top of the vertical arm you currently have to get some upward force to pull it and the bale up.  If the bales aren't that sturdy you could add a horizontal member so you could have tie downs running 2 directions to hold it together better.Did that make any sense?
Reply:humor me here! maybe extending the length of the vertical sled that mounts to the spike? more contact area could keep it from binding as much since the lever forces would be spread out to a larger surface area? Wouldn't have to worry about wear, or plastic snapping due to cold temps.I think the end all be all of discussion would be to do this:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ter_wheels.jpgbut thats a big job....Is it just me? or is the hook in the last picture look like it's being bent back vertical?
Reply:Originally Posted by CrawfordIs it just me? or is the hook in the last picture look like it's being bent back vertical?
Reply:Maybe while your upgading the sled or w/e, you might look into adding a clevis shackle and mount like this: http://www.comp4x4.com/Images/Compet...levis%2002.jpghttp://nates4x4.com/catalog/images/shackleCM.jpg
Reply:maybe a couple of these trolleys could be modified to work it would probably take 2 of them, still be cheaper than machined rollers though http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97392Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Reply:if you lengthen your traveling block out a couple feet it would help but I dont think it would be enough, you got a lot of weight thats hanging out there, teflon or somthing like that might kind of work but to actually be convenient to use the traveling block will probably have to be rebuilt with rollersDo not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Reply:Alright, well what about having a second cable going up and over the bale of hay to lift the point of the spike and eliminate the lever effect all together?  Just add another cable going from your winch up and over the bale (you'd have to add that 2nd arm too) and attach it to the front of the spike.  You'd have to take it off, obviously, to poke it through the bale, but itd be easy enough to just hook back up.  I think this, in combination with either rollers or lengthened travel block would eliminate your problem at a minimal cost. Attached ImagesMillermatic 135Syncrowave 250
Reply:How about something with a hinge?Edit: Opps, just read the part about it being 3ft off the ground lol Attached Images
Reply:In the pic i don't see any evidence of grease. Has that been tried yet?? And yes, the hook the winch hook attaches to should be a closed loop, that looks awfully weak to hold 1500 lbs.                                           MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:If you could move the hook out just a few inches towards the hay, it would help immensely. Even two inches would make it work better. The more the better.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:A forklift has a similar cantilever problem. They use a rollers that runs in c-channel. You might look at a forklift for inspiration. The trolley may be too short. Even a few inches longer would help. I'd add the length to one side (L shaped trolley) which will give the trolley a mechanical advantage.I'd put wheels that run in the i-beam groove. The wheels should be sized just under the flange distance so the top roller can ride on right flange and bottom would ride on the left. You would have 4 wheels. It's much easier to move rolling weightHigh-density polyethylene (HDPE) wear pads that ride in the channel might work also.Alternatively, have you tried a good layer of grease?
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireI'd put wheels that run in the i-beam groove. The wheels should be sized just under the flange distance so the top roller can ride on right flange and bottom would ride on the left. You would have 4 wheels. It's much easier to move rolling weight
Reply:So many great ideas THANKS GUYS!!As many have noticed the eye bolt did spread open rather nicely..... it will be replaced with a closed loop, possibly a link of heavier chain welded in it's place.  However the fact that enough force was applied to do that to a 1/2" eye bolt with relative ease sort of proves that the rest of the structure is up to task. I am rather certain that the bale was frozen to the ground, I was in too much a hurry to notice, next trial I will roll the bale a few feet first. BTW this lift will only be used around the paddock, I'm certain that it's up to the task, but a bump at even slow speed would put huge dynamic loads on this contraption,  all it needs to do is suspend a bale horizontally 3" to load into this feeder (one end will be made removable so it can slide in) Attached Images
Reply:Forhire,The design you posted is the next plan.  I was thinking that a cheap source for wheels might be roller blade wheels....... descent bearings and cheap.   Solid steel wheels would be ideal but I cant find a good source, any advice?Another issue may be with tracking the wheels, the profile of the I beam has a slope to the inside of the flanges.  Would this cause the wheels to track outward under load? Attached Images
Reply:This is one where you wonder if an I-beam trolley could be modified or even canibalized."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:#1  Make trolley taller.  The taller, the better.#2  Add a roller to the bottom.  Full width of the flange would be good.  Could be as simple as a piece of DOM with a shaft through the middle and some grease.#3 Add a safety loop to the top of the trolley that wraps around the beam so if the trolley spreads, it doesn't dump your bale.  Another solution would be a beefed up trolley, something on edge or really thick steel (1/2" plus).My name's not Jim....
Reply:Steel caster wheels should work. The i-beam taper will actually help keep the trolley tracking straight. You can use smaller wheels by moving the holes forward or back. Ideally the wheel will have a roller bearing but a greased bushing/bore should work well enough.Try looking at these:http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...y-duty-castersYou can also look at idler wheels:http://www.mcmaster.com/#1100
Reply:From the close up of the trolley it appears you have square tubing as your back weight bearing surface and they are turned so only the corner is sliding on the I beam.  I would think your first step would be to make the slider trolley more in the manner of a wood splitter.  No the first step should be to replace the attachment hook!  Use the Kiss approach.Just extend your trolley so as when you apply your lift force the leading edge of the trolley sliders on the inside of the I beam are not digging into the I beam.  Round the top edge so as to prevent it from getting a hold of the I beam.  Grease is cheap!
Reply:Try a flanged wheel like this:http://www.mcmaster.com/#1341model 2353T25 with 3/4" boreThe shoulder bolts can be found here:http://www.mcmaster.com/#91259a844I increased the trolley height to 18" and boxed out the spear support. Another thing you might do is put a pulley on the trolley and anchor your cable back at the top, This will make it easier to crank up. Attached ImagesOriginally Posted by llamafurHow about something with a hinge?Edit: Opps, just read the part about it being 3ft off the ground lol
Reply:Personally I'd abandon the idea.  SorryJust build/buy a standard truck bale spike.  The kind that bolts to the rear of the pickup bed with a winch for tilting it.Go with a standard lightweight feeder ring that you can tip up by hand, drop the bale, and tip the feeder back over the bale.  Horses are easy on feeders anyhow, really don't need heavy feeders.BTW, what you have there will rip to pieces if the truck tilts one way or the other to the side if the bale is elevated too high."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I-beam trolly like this:http://www.mcmaster.com/#trolleys/=6cufr3
Reply:Sam,The reason for the more substantial feeder design is to prevent the horses from getting respiratory issues from sticking thier whole head into the bale and breathing in the dust.  The cage will prevent them from ripping more than a mouth full at a time.  Horses also have a nasty habit of using hay as bedding and the waste becomes a big issue, not to mention that hay seams to act as manure rebar when it comes time to clean up.  I'll watch things carefully and brace or modify as required. In the end this is a learning experince, with the goal being no painfull lessons.No pics of the feeder yet, figure I better make sure I can load the thing before building it.  Forhire,Those drawings are GREAT, if they are google sketchup any chance you could send me the file? Adding a pulley to the trolley is an excellent idea!! Halfing the effort with a simple solution.Between adding rollers and lengthing the trolley it may work, I'll post pics of the next trial.
Reply:Originally Posted by UpnorthSam,Forhire,Those drawings are GREAT, if they are google sketchup any chance you could send me the file? Adding a pulley to the trolley is an excellent idea!! Halving the effort with a simple solution.Between adding rollers and lengthening the trolley it may work, I'll post pics of the next trial.
Reply:I rebuilt the trolley, added wheels and made it longer.  Even with the added length it will still lift a bale 4'.  The trolley is made of 1", 1/8" wall square tubing with 1" x 1/8" flat bar wheel extensions.  It doesnt look very strong but it should really be strong enough in all the right directions.  again not looking to do much other than lift a bale up so hopefully no dynamic loads.  The fact that is has only a single spike should allow the bale to rotate rather than side load the  lift. Attached Images
Reply:I don't know how often it's used, but I would keep an eye open for a larger diameter guide pulley for the top of the I-beam. Those tight radius pulleys currently at the top are very hard on the cable if used everyday. If it was around 6-8" you would only need a single pulley.
Reply:It looks like the skate wheels fit nicely. Have you tried it yet? Let's see an action shot.