Super Planter

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Ok guys so here is the ideer that a friend wants to do with the dirt from their Pool build.I'm calling it a Super Planter-dunno what else to call it.Anyhoo- they want a 24'x32'x4' high Steel enclosure to put te dirt in and make a raised grass area. They want Steel and want it to weather. Cor-ten steel has been mentioned.He wanted 1" steel but after seeing the price of a 4x8 Plate=1,000.00 +I was looking a 40yard roll off and started thinking we could do it with a lot thinner steel.Figgerin' 4" Posts every 4' and maybe 3/8" Plates??? Thinner? I know the roll off is a lot thinner.Well there ya go- have fun Attached ImagesEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:concrete would be cheaper than the steel.  Either way it sounds like an expensive undertaking.  What is the reason for raising it so high?  I'm assuming it will be a garden of some kind but by making it that high your going to have a hard time getting rototillers and what have you in and out of there. All the raised gardens I've seen were long strips that were no wider than 4 feet wide so you could stand and reach across them to pick and tend the plants.Miller 250x & Lincoln V205-TSmith Oxy-Prop torch
Reply:Steel in the ground = rust.Hot dipped galvanized steel in the ground may last longer, if the zinc coating isn't damaged somewhere during install or later.CorTen in the ground?  Don't know how that would hold up. CorTen above ground or in water is usually OK, but I don't know about it in the ground as far as corrosion.And as mentioned, all that steel would be $$$.I'm guessing that the dimensions are because that is how much dirt will be taken out for the in-ground pool.  That big and that high I think the 'usual' is masonry walls.  Either concrete or interlocking stacked retaining block walls.  Think terraced landscape.  They make lots of different shapes and sizes and patterns for the retaining wall blocks.It's still going to be a big chunk of $$$ for that much retaining wall though.  Perimeter of 112 running feet and call it nominally 10 courses high (6 8" courses above ground and 4 courses below grade for the 'foundation' level ) means about 840 16" long blocks.  If the blocks run $5 per block material, that's $4200+ just in blocks.  Not counting gravel, prep and labor.Also note that different locales -may- have restrictions on how high a wall can be either for aesthetic reasons or fall-hazard reasons.  Above that height and a perimeter fence might be required for fall protection.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Steel is the choice as they want the Rust look.I suggested a Retaining wall like ya mentioned and then face the wall with Steel.Retaining wall outta my pay grade but he is a Client of ours so don't mind doing some research for him- easy to price the steel and get a Minimum costHe also is looking for a Steel Buoy or any Big steel sphere to place in his backyard.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:We used Cor-ten for Phoenix AZ wayfinding signs.  We sprayed it down with salt water before we shipped it there because with little to no humidity it wouldn't weather properly..... haha.Expensive stuff and there is a certain wire you have to use.  I have the specs at work.John
Reply:$$$ don't seem to be a problem so just go w/ stainless!!!                                     MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by mla2ofus$$$ don't seem to be a problem so just go w/ stainless!!!                                     Mike
Reply:Ed there are a number of concrete stains that will give you that "rust" look, or something fairly close. We did a basement using that when the client wanted something other than plain concrete that was colored close to that to match his bricks.Oh you might also check with him on how he figured the area. Usually we figure for every yard of dirt removed you need 3-4 yards to store or move it due to "fluff". Getting it all recompacted back down to the original 1yd isn't easy, and he'll most likely blow the light gauge steel walls apart trying to do that.I do know of one person who did something similar with retaining wall blocks. They did an above ground pool, only to find out 6 months later that their home owners association would only allow in ground pools, not above ground ones. So he had dirt trucked in and buried the pool till grade reached the top and made it "in ground" .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ed, I've been putting steel in the ground for years ...   mostly water/irrigation pipe.  I've worked on, repaired, modified, and installed them.   Any rot I've observed, 99% of the time, comes from the salts and the minerals in the water, that is, it goes from the inside out.   Very rarely, have I ever seen rot from the soil eating the pipe from the outside.I have worked on 20-30-40 year old pipes, 10 gauge walls, look just as good on the outside as the day they were put in.  Drainage is a factor, though.  Steel put directly in dirt will last for years; steel put in concrete below grade will shortly rot out and break.  Also consider the soil types when dumping the subsoil in.  With no prep or mixing, you could very well create a "salt layer" thru which no water, salts, or roots will penetrate, between the fill and the top of the old topsoil.  It could conceiveably just sit there, accellerating the rotting of the steel.
Reply:DSW,If it happens it will be steel plates or as the final facing. It is not that he wants a Rust look he wants Rust/weathered steel.generator and my 120v Migoline should do the job eh? Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks Joe,I'm trying to get him to just build a wall as mentioned and then we can just face it. Replace panels as needed over the years.ahh who knows- supposed to build him a 5x20' Patio table- that I can do- but he still hasn't confirmed on that. There's little welding projects like the Table and then there's Contractor projects I is little welder projects dude.They're in the middle of building out their new/old house but I imagine he wants some where to put the dirt from the Pool hole so he doesn't have to move it twiceEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Don't know how hard it is to find or the price, but sheet piling like used to build coffer dams would work good and it's usually rusted good.                           MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:You might want to weld round rod cross ways inside the walls about a foot down from the top to help keep the walls from bowing outward.
Reply:what about fiberglassing the inside before the dirt goes in,just an idea,used to build below ground swimming pools,that's been 25 years ago,might make it last a little longer but still allow rusting on the outside........pools back then were concrete except the last 4 foot up and that was steel....just a thought if I read the first few posts right.Maxus Pro-125 MigChicago Electric 90 amp DC flux-coreLincoln Electric AC 225 tombstoneO/A torchM/O mini-torch10 acres of flatland15 acres of holler
Reply:Why not use 1/4" plate with angle iron cross members.  If you have to put post every four feet that could give it the strength to help hold back the dirt.  And cut down on the price big time.I am tired of Ketchup, I want the Gravy...
Reply:Cor-ten absolutely.   i would say you could do it out of pure steel but the overall height says NO.   i would go concrete retaining wall with steel imbeds poured in place. the when the concrete is set and dry and all the dirt pilled up you can go in and stitch the 4x8 sheets right to the imbeds.  1/4" core-ten would be just what the dr. ordered.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:There's something like that down the street from me.  The exterior planting area on the Wilshire side of the new Eli Broad building is about 3' high and is all bounded with 1" steel.  I don't know if/what they did to preserve or protect it, but it might be worth taking a look.  While you're there, take a look through the window at the big Richard Serra steel sculptures.  They're 14' tall and weigh 42.5 tons.  All made of weathered steel.Jack OlsenMy garage website
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Ok guys so here is the ideer that a friend wants to do with the dirt from their Pool build.I'm calling it a Super Planter-dunno what else to call it.Anyhoo- they want a 24'x32'x4' high Steel enclosure to put te dirt in and make a raised grass area. They want Steel and want it to weather. Cor-ten steel has been mentioned.He wanted 1" steel but after seeing the price of a 4x8 Plate=1,000.00 +I was looking a 40yard roll off and started thinking we could do it with a lot thinner steel.Figgerin' 4" Posts every 4' and maybe 3/8" Plates??? Thinner? I know the roll off is a lot thinner.Well there ya go- have fun