running an air arc

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I have been thinking about getting an air arc torch I saw them on this forum and was wondering how they work, how much air I would need and if my trailblazer would run one? right now Im using a standard torch and when Im removing rusted nuts and sprockets I always end up hit the threads or shaft at least once doesnt matter how much care I use. And are they expensive to use comparatively?
Reply:If you just need a just a short blast of air to cut one small part, the air reservoir of almost any shop compressor will do. I'm sure your Trailblazer would burn smaller carbons.  I'm not sure about oxy-fuel vs carbon-arc costs, they're probably comparable.How they work? Essentially, the carbon maintains a metal melting arc, and the air blasts away molten metal. Any metal that can be melted, can be blown away with carbon-arc. Whereas the oxy-fuel torch will only burn or oxidize ferrous metals.Using carbon-arc for damage free separation of adjacent stuck parts would be even more difficult to master than oxy-fuel. Mostly because the carbon-arc doesn't separate heat and cutting between layers of metal the way oxy-fuel does. With oxy-fuel; no preheat, no ignition, or melt. With carbon-arc, if the metal is within the arc's range it's gone; regardless if it's part of one continuous piece of metal or  not.When separating stuck parts with oxy-fuel, practice cutting back the preheat of your torch so that the burn is concentrated on one piece without excess preheat to the adjacent part. Also, usually it's not necessary to completely cut pieces apart. Just thin it down so that the final little bit can be broken away.Good Luck
Reply:Are you using a scarfing/gouging tip w/ the torch? If not you'll do a lot less damage using one.                                   JMHO,                                             MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:The more I think I know the less I actually do  What is a scarfing tip and is it something the lws could get? so using a air arc would be more like using a plasma than a OA torch then. it seems like there is always at least one spot on a frozen sprocket that the metals are touching each other to the point that it can start to cut just on the oxygen stream for sure if its in a tight position.
Reply:Here's a couple of pics and yes your LWS usually has them in stock. This is a Victor brand. The way I've always used them is to aim it longditudinally(sp) w/ the weld you want to cut out. If the tip is aimed to the left,start a preheat about 3/4" from the right end of weld. When iron is hot enough to start the cut,do so and slowly back the tip to the right as it starts melting iron.Then move to the left back to where you started the cut and 3/4" left of that. After some practice you'll be able to only cut out what will be waste and hardly touch what needs to be saved. I've cut hundreds of brg races off shafts w/ this by just gouging paralell (sp) to shaft center and leave nothing but a little blue spot on the shaft.                Hope this helps,                                       Mike  When you get a new one,notice the blow hole is counterbored(I guess that's the proper term)ie: it starts asa large hole and then reduces down about a 1/4" in. This is so slag won't plug the hole so easy. This isn't meant for precision cutting,just to move lots of iron!!!! As I said, w/ practice you'll be amazed at the things you can do w/ it.Last edited by mla2ofus; 10-24-2008 at 06:08 PM.Ol' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Once you get practiced and skilled at either process, both are capable of precise surgical cutting.   If anything, the air-arc even more so than the scarfing tip.   Cost-wise, once the capital investment is made in compressor and torch, the air-arc is by far cheaper to operate.
Reply:I just wanted to let you know that I have a Trailblazer 302 and I turn it up to 250 amp and gouge with 1/4 inch carbons and with small cheap compressor get by just fine for anything that I have run across so far.I run compressor at 100 PSI.Everything has its limits but so far so good.It is way way way better then grinding.I live in Ontario, Canada and a 50 Pc box of 1/4 inch carbon rods cost me $20.00 and with each rod it would take me at least one cutting disc to cut roughly same amount of weld out and them cutting dics are 5-6 dollars each so air arc is way cheaper for my needs anyway.
Reply:I have oxy torch, plasma and arc air.  I have the most control with the arc air.  It will cut ONLY where you put the electrode.  If you wiggle it all over well then........Arc air is the best for cutting off old bird sh*t welds hopefully left by some one else.  It works best for me when back gouging.  Just chip the slag away and weld.  Not much clean up before welding.1/8" electrodes are less than $0.25 each.  200 amps are plenty for that size rod. 5/32 or 3/16 need 200 to 250 amps.  1/4" needs LOST-O-AMPS, like 300.Look here http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=24653David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:[QUOTE=denrep;221127]If you just need a just a short blast of air to cut one small part, the air reservoir of almost any shop compressor will do. I'm sure your Trailblazer would burn smaller carbons.  I'm not sure about oxy-fuel vs carbon-arc costs, they're probably comparable.How they work? Essentially, the carbon maintains a metal melting arc, and the air blasts away molten metal. Any metal that can be melted, can be blown away with carbon-arc. Whereas the oxy-fuel torch will only burn or oxidize ferrous metals.......................................................................................  ..................................................  .................................Last sentence  is ALMOST right . Some people may NOT know that Oxy-Acetylene can burn Titanium . I did it at Mare Island Naval shipyard in the big shipfitter shop . They had me Burn it, because it burns better than the cutting with the plasma arc. I cut a 48 " circle out of a 50" X50" X1" thick plate. And the shipfitter Supe himself came to salvage the scrap pieces . But, boy did it smoke up the shop !!!  They cleared everybody out , as it smoked up the 150' X1000'  building .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:I am a fan of air arc but for rusted nuts and stuff like that try just heating them up with the preheat flames . you don't even need to get them red. just heat them enough to make them expand a bit and break the rust. bye the way I air arc with with a Bobcat 250 with up to 3/16 electrodes, so your trailblazer should be a problem.Last edited by tresi; 10-24-2008 at 08:52 PM.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:air arcing is awesome, used it all the time for demoing flasework, moving it, then welding it back up.We would use around 450 amps and run rotary compressors.By the way, those scarfing tips go for around 25 smackers around here, but they are golden, i would hold onto the ones everyone else said "were totally fu*cked up kid, dont even mess with it" take them home, clean them out and keep them for garage.if you are going to air arc, it SPRAYS sparks, many times more than a cutting torch, and its extrmely loud, ear plugs and leathers are a must, IMHO
Reply:Thanks everybody for the help. My old boss had some of those tips he bought at an auction with a bunch of welding supplies  and I thought some moron had used their torch as a pry bar must of had 10 of them.  I think I will start checking on ebay for a air arc sounds like a good tool to have in the outdoor shop.
Reply:tresi  Im talking really screwed up stuff here that somebody welded on, Heat works great for some stuff, but I have had 2 60" pipe wrenches on 2" bolts with a 2 ton come-along between them, heat and everything and still not have it break lose and sometimes time is more valuable than the replacement parts.
Reply:[quote=Roy Hodges;221216] Originally Posted by denrepIf you just need a just a short blast of air to cut one small part, the air reservoir of almost any shop compressor will do. I'm sure your Trailblazer would burn smaller carbons.  I'm not sure about oxy-fuel vs carbon-arc costs, they're probably comparable.How they work? Essentially, the carbon maintains a metal melting arc, and the air blasts away molten metal. Any metal that can be melted, can be blown away with carbon-arc. Whereas the oxy-fuel torch will only burn or oxidize ferrous metals.......................................................................................  ..................................................  .................................Last sentence  is ALMOST right . Some people may NOT know that Oxy-Acetylene can burn Titanium . I did it at Mare Island Naval shipyard in the big shipfitter shop . They had me Burn it, because it burns better than the cutting with the plasma arc. I cut a 48 " circle out of a 50" X50" X1" thick plate. And the shipfitter Supe himself came to salvage the scrap pieces . But, boy did it smoke up the shop !!!  They cleared everybody out , as it smoked up the 150' X1000'  building .
Reply:Arc Aire cutters are great tools. So are scarfing tips. Both have places where one is better than the other. It isn't hard to make your own scarfing tip. Take an old worn #1 or #2 cutting tip and drill out the cutting oxygen cutting hole like a regular scarfing tip and you are in business. Not quite a handy as the crooked one but it's cheap.I've had customers ask me what I did to my torch when I would break out the scarfing tip. I usually tell them I got it so hot it just kind of drooped over like that.
Reply:Arc air is a great tool!!!! I use to backgouge flanges over 5/8 thick all the time.  To arc takes less than a 1/3 of the time to do than grinding.  Then we would use the sub-arc semi auto torch to fill it back in.  3/4 in up was a 2 pass both side procedure and we had to arc both sides.  Took a long time before we got the arc air we were running 3/8 and 1/2 carbons on some HUGE!!! Power supplys.Millermatic 251Miller Bobcat 225Lincoln 135Victor Oxy/FuelOlder Thermal Dynamics 50 amp (paid $700 with 10 sets of consumables)