Tig Goals while in School?

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Evening all,I've been a weld student now for a few months and have been at the TIG process constantly because I want to eventually get into auto fabrication.My instructor is great cause he lets us try any process we want as long as we are working hard everyday.  So, the class I'm in is focused on stick and plate with the end goal getting your stick certs on 1 inch plate.  I am confident I can meet that goal and then some which is why I'm focusing hard on tig, So my question is what is a good cert I should shoot for during school and to test for for an entry level TIG job? Is there any general standard like the 1" vert plate for stick?  thanks!
Reply:Nope,  No general standards that I can think of.  If you're going into auto fabrication, I'd focus on welding thin steel sheet, nothing heavier than 16 gauge.  Focus on running smooth beads in all positions, and pay attention to distortion. You're not going to be able to roll a car and weld in the flat position.   Learn how to tack and weld while keeping the total heat input low, so the base metal stays as close to it's original shape as possible.  See if your instructor can show you the basics of pulsed TIG for controlling heat input.  It's not tough, and it makes a huge difference when welding on thin material.I see a lot of guys using MIG on autobody work.  You might want to take a look at this too, and compare the adds and disadds of TIG vs. MIG for this application.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by antimulletI have been at the TIG process constantly because I want to eventually get into auto fabrication.My instructor is great cause he lets us try any process we want as long as we are working hard everyday.  So, the class I'm in is focused on stick and plate with the end goal getting your stick certs on 1 inch plate.  I am confident I can meet that goal and then some which is why I'm focusing hard on tig, So my question is what is a good cert I should shoot for during school and to test for for an entry level TIG job? Is there any general standard like the 1" vert plate for stick?  thanks!
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverI've been in three welding classes since I retired two years ago. MIG sheet metal, O/A and now TIG 101. 1 inch plate and auto fabrication aren't in the same Universe. Stick is almost useless in auto fab. I don't think you and your instructor are on the same page. I don't mean to be rude, but something is way off base here.
Reply:I agree wholeheartedly with Craig on this issue.Stick welding 1" structural plate and autobody work do not belong in the same discussion.Mig (including pulsed mig), pulsed tig, and O/A are autobody tools.  Stick may be used to fab up a stand to hold a part in position but most shops today will just use a mig.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:So there is no standard certs for a TIG welder to work in a fab shop or something similar?
Reply:No.  In fact, if you're working in an automotive fab shop, the odds of you ever needing to test to any sort of code (with maybe the exception of icar  if you're doing body work, and it's not a code, just a certification) are very, very slim.  They're going to test you when you walk in the door based on the type of fab they do.
Reply:Originally Posted by antimulletEvening all,I've been a weld student now for a few months and have been at the TIG process constantly because I want to eventually get into auto fabrication.My instructor is great cause he lets us try any process we want as long as we are working hard everyday.  So, the class I'm in is focused on stick and plate with the end goal getting your stick certs on 1 inch plate.  I am confident I can meet that goal and then some which is why I'm focusing hard on tig, So my question is what is a good cert I should shoot for during school and to test for for an entry level TIG job? Is there any general standard like the 1" vert plate for stick?  thanks!
Reply:Cool thanks for all the great input folks!
Reply:antimullest,the certs for Tig are basically the same for Stick, and Mig, meaning you take cert tests for positions, flat, hori, vert, overhead, pipe. difference is you take them using the GTAW process, or Mig process, or O-A process, etc., measning your cert will indicate the whole process used and position and material used. the reason for the 1" stick test is to certify you for unlimited thickness. here's a real quick breakdown.any test pc under 1" thick will qualify you for up to 3/4". any test pc 1" or thicker will qualify you for unlimited thickness. you take general cert tests in different positions. the positions are the same reguardless of material used, or process used.the material and process will determine your cert in that material and process only.now there are a whole lot more details involved but that should give you a little better understanding of how the certification testing process works.johnjohnwelding instructorwww.williamrmoore.orgMooreTech College of Technologywelder/fabricatorJGWilson, Inc.www.jgwilson.com
Reply:No one's ever going to know everthing but that doesn't mean you can't try! One inch plate certs aren't relevant to automotive work but if the course you're on offers this at no extra cost (especially if you're confident you'll pass easily)... Codes are job specific, all the cert means is that you welded to the required standard on test day (you're only as good as your last weld!). They expire if not kept up to date- pointless paying for a cert if you won't be working in the relevant field to keep it updated. Of course expired certs at least show that you HAVE welded to that standard before (which is all a current cert really shows if you change jobs)As said, automotive work will generally be an 'in house' test of your abilities, often pretty basic for small companies/teams. At the other extreme world class motorsport often work to aerospace specs- wouldn't be uncommon to end up with several certs if working for a WRC team for example. Aircraft materials/joint types and section thicknesses are reasonably close to what will be encountered in motorsport. A couple of typical examples (sheet to sheet butts and fillets are self explainitary)...Tube to sheet fillet coupon, the 'micro test' end is welded as pictured the other with the tube vertical A tube cluster. After tacking up in a jig the coupon is removed and positioned as pictured (front elevation) for welding so that the joint at the top left of the pic is welded overhead. You move around the piece to complete the weldsOverkill at the moment perhaps but there's no reason why you can't set up and weld coupons of these types yourself. May well be able to test them at school, i can dig out the acceptance criteria if wanted
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderNo one's ever going to know everthing but that doesn't mean you can't try! One inch plate certs aren't relevant to automotive work but if the course you're on offers this at no extra cost (especially if you're confident you'll pass easily)... Codes are job specific, all the cert means is that you welded to the required standard on test day (you're only as good as your last weld!). They expire if not kept up to date- pointless paying for a cert if you won't be working in the relevant field to keep it updated. Of course expired certs at least show that you HAVE welded to that standard before (which is all a current cert really shows if you change jobs)As said, automotive work will generally be an 'in house' test of your abilities, often pretty basic for small companies/teams. At the other extreme world class motorsport often work to aerospace specs- wouldn't be uncommon to end up with several certs if working for a WRC team for example. Aircraft materials/joint types and section thicknesses are reasonably close to what will be encountered in motorsport. A couple of typical examples (sheet to sheet butts and fillets are self explainitary)...Tube to sheet fillet coupon, the 'micro test' end is welded as pictured the other with the tube vertical A tube cluster. After tacking up in a jig the coupon is removed and positioned as pictured (front elevation) for welding so that the joint at the top left of the pic is welded overhead. You move around the piece to complete the weldsOverkill at the moment perhaps but there's no reason why you can't set up and weld coupons of these types yourself. May well be able to test them at school, i can dig out the acceptance criteria if wanted
Reply:You don't say where you are from. I assume somewhere in the USA.I am surprised that everyone says there are no certs for TIG there certainly are in Australia.AS1796 for pressure vessel welding and AS1544SP for Structural Purpose welding specify how welds are to be done and how they are to be tested & to what specifications. Both are tested and certified by authorised inspectors provided by either the WorkCover Authority or Technical And Further Education (TAFE). Both are available for OA, MMAW, GMAW, GTAW, FCAW methods.The licence we get on certification is from the Welding Institute of Australia and I am led to believe is recognised in the USA. So I'm surprised you don't have something similar.
Reply:Australia works under several codes including ASME9, API, BS and several AS/NZS  codes with several parts of this being tig.The best thing I can think of for you would be a s/s tube test, I forget the number of it in NZ, hang on, NZ 4703 rings a bell which is a s/s food grade ticket.   Stainless tube with a branch and a butt(?) A good ticket for showing tig control and possibly good for you with the body work, there will be one based along these lines state side.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:I've been in the performance field for about a 2 years now making everything from turbo kits, intercoolers, exhausts, cages, to stupid little brackets that are needed to hold something in place. Definitely get comfortable welding in just about ANY position. Get familiar with running beads on mild steel, but make sure to get time in on stainless, and absolutely aluminum. Weld tubing of different thickness, at different angles and positions. Also weld some flat stock to tubing as if it were an exhaust flange. Supe is correct that you most likely will not need a certification unless you're a body guy, but have pictures to show the hiring manager and be ready to lay a nice bead for them..
Reply:When I was taking the phases of my Autobody Journeymans(84,85,87), Alberta,you had to be able to do the differing welds(but, lap etc), with oxy-acetylene using brass, mild steel and no filler rod at all, then for mig you had to do the same and have a presentable welds as you would o/a then normalize it with a hammer and dolly and do flawless spotwelds with normalization and some hot forging where you work the weld back into the seam(of sheetmetal, cannot do high strength steel to that temp). And we were made aware of the "liability" of not using a standard number of spotwelds.Not taking high strength steel past dull hot when shrinking unicoup members or frame supports, because exceding this could cost someone their lives or your license as it removes the grain in metal.Tig wasn't as prominent back then but I would say it has now surppassed o/a, but not all shops have it.And most definitely in automotive knowing overhead welding is important, knowing your mixed gases.Last edited by pistolnoon; 11-22-2008 at 02:14 AM.
Reply:Hey Aaron,It's a bit too involved to go into all the criteria in full. This is more a case of some highlights that may be tested relatively easily. Visual examine is done at upto 3x magnification, welds should blend reasonably smoothly into the parent material- no abrupt edges to the toes, undercut limited to 0.05T or 0.08mm (whichever is the lesser) for butts and 0.1T for filletsThe weld itself should be reasonably smooth, maximum depression (say, ripples from filler additions) not to exceed 0.15T. Weld width (W) should be uniformButt welds are single sided full penetration evidenced by root reinforcement although the absence of an unfused line is acceptable. Maximum thickness of sheet is 1.6mm. Weld reinforcement (R) should not exceed 0.5T, ideally be around 0.3TFillets... depth of fusion (F) to be at least 0.15T, actual weld size (S) is dependant on on parent material thickness (T) with the thinner member determining size.  Parent Metal Thickness (mm) Minimum Weld Size0.254 - 0.635  ______________ 2.4T0.660 - 1.270 _______________1.6T1.295 - 2.285 _______________1.3T2.310 - 3.175 _______________1.1T3.200 and over ______________TMinimum throat thickness (D) should be not be less than 0.7 x minimum weld size. Some LOF at the root is acceptable in the following circomstances For welds of approx 45* the unfused distance X should not be greater than 1/3 of the distance Y. For 30* joints an unfused section is permissable provided that the actual throat thickness (D) is not less than the minimum weld size (S). For 90* welds where the parent material is equal or less than 1.6mm incomplete root fusion is acceptable for a distance X of not more than 0.3D provided the actual throat thickness is not less than 'S'Unacceptable welds includes the usual suspects- any visible crack, incomplete penetration, underfill or coldlap and stray arc strikes. Porosity/tungsten inclusions... defects less than 0.05mm in parent materials upto 1.6mm and less than 0.12mm or 0.03T (whichever is the lesser) in thicker materials are disregarded. There are plenty of others but many of them concern thinner wall thicknesses than you'll likely be dealing with.