Re-Weld Big Ford Housing End on Fab 9" Rear

admin

Ok, I had my local chassis shop build me a fab 9" rear end.  When I went to pick it up, I noticed one of the housing ends was not aligned with the other side.  The chassis guy said yea, that was my apprentice that welded it up.  I asked him if we can fix it by grinding off the welds carefully and replace the housing end.  He claims it cannot be done because it will ruin the housing.  So now I am stuck with this rear when where one brake caliper is higher than the other.  Not by much, but it is noticeable.  And the worst part is he knew about it and never told me hoping I would not notice.So, my question is...  If I carefully grind down the welds and not damage the housing end, can a new end be placed on it again without any problems?  Will there be a problem with welding int he same place again on teh axle tubes with all the heat again?Thanks in advance!
Reply:He can either fix it or buy it.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:The bottom line, as I see it, is the chassis guy screwed up. It should be on him to make it right. Did you pay for the job? I'd be b!tchin' like a wild man!!Whether it will "work" or not is beside the point...it ain't right!Rex
Reply:Yes I already paid for it.  That was my fault.  When he built my chassis, I paid in steps and that was done nice.  So I figured I would pay for all the parts a labor up front on he rear and this is what I got.To be honest with you, him knowing there was a problem and not telling me, I do not want him touching anything of mine anymore.I was going to get the axles and 3RD member through him, but now I think I am going to send the whole rear end to Strange and have them finish it up.
Reply:your talking about the 4 bolt bracket on the end of the tubes?  Yes they can be changed.  I would make him fix it.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Am i missing something? if it was welded wrong why cant it be welder correctly?Or was it machined after it was welded?Can you park it in front of his shop with a big sign on it stating the kind of craftsmanship practiced here?A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Originally Posted by carnut68...one brake caliper is higher than the other.  Not by much, but it is noticeable....
Reply:Yes, I am talking about the housing ends.  In my case Big Ford New Style.  As for how much difference, I would say about 1.5" - 2" off from each other.  I have not actually measured it yet, but from looking at both ends, they appear to each be offset from center.  From what I understand, with the axle installed in the straight position (I have a 4 link) the housing ends should be level.  But when I look at them, the each appear to be on the opposite sides of center.I am pretty sure they can be removed and new ones welded on because the actual end of the tube, slips inside of the housing end and is not changed.My concern is that now twice the amount of heat is going to be placed on the same spot of the tubes when re-welded.  The current ends are TIG welded and I want the same for the new ones.
Reply:They're just plug-welds, right?Plug-weld being a hole in the center housing's axle tube receiver, which is filled with weld, tying the housing to the tube.At Dearborn they were plug-welded.Last edited by denrep; 12-20-2008 at 11:00 PM.
Reply:No, the housing ends slip over the end of the axle tube and then are fully welded all the way around..I have attached a couple of photos so you can see what I am talking about. Attached Images
Reply:Got ya. I thought we were talking about this:Attachment 26593But the plug welds are probably where the indexing mistake happened, because the brake flanges are probably welded to the tubes on the bench, before the tubes are inserted in the housing. Maybe not... would have to study the suspension brackets.I think the weldor should drill the plugs and change or fix one tube weldment.Last edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:37 PM.
Reply:Sense the end are misindexed check the 4 link brackets before and after the repair.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:Originally Posted by carnut68...but now I think I am going to send the whole rear end to Strange and have them finish it up.
Reply:if its a plug weld i would say find a good machine shop that will mill the plug weld out.   Just becuase im anal i wouldnt live with that.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:By my estimate It would be couple hours of rework  to fix. Technically it won't make a functional difference, so I can see why he doesn't want to cut it apart again. I priced the big ford housing ends @ $70/pair from the Jegs catalog, but the jig you need to weld them in right  runs about $250-300 (it's a precision ground bar w/ alignment "pucks" or bushings to line up the housing ends with the axis of the 3rd member bearing caps.)It would be difficult to salvage the existing housing end if you can't shorten or cut the main tube, so my guess is that it would be $35 (one new end) + 2 hours labor ($65/hr) to make the ends the way you want (L & Rt ends lined-up and clocked symmetrically). I assume you already have your axles cut and re-splined to length and don't want to narrow the housing any further.I wouldn't re-weld it only because I don't own a jig. The brakes won't know they are clocked differently and the bearings don't care as long as they are retained, so it should function fine as-is disregarding cosmetics. I would demand at least partial refund/compensation because the job wasn't done right regardless of functionality and chalk it up as a lesson learned. If you can get your hands on an alignment jig to show the ends are really crooked (bearing axis is way off), or the tubes are welded at the wrong length for your axles- that's grounds for asking him for a full refund + "eat" the cost to fix it right. Have you checked the housing with your axles installed yet?If you are a competent weldor and plan on narrowing more than one or two housings, you would probably be money ahead investing in an alignment  jig and doing it yourself .-Matt------------------------------------------
Reply:I spoke with Strange today and the cost is $125 labor and $70 for the ends, plus shipping to them. So I will see what I am going to do.  I wish I had a jig, I would TIG them myself...I will post more photos of the car and chassis work soon.  I need am in the process of cleaning the mild surface rust that got on the bars from the non-air conditioned chassis shop it was in.Thanks for all your replies!
Reply:thats an ugly mistake. very obvious. cant believe he tried to fast ball it by you.it is sad what some people think is ok in regards to others money but would never allow if it was their moneyinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Originally Posted by carnut68I spoke with Strange today and the cost is $125 labor and $70 for the ends, plus shipping to them. So I will see what I am going to do.  I wish I had a jig, I would TIG them myself...I will post more photos of the car and chassis work soon.  I need am in the process of cleaning the mild surface rust that got on the bars from the non-air conditioned chassis shop it was in.Thanks for all your replies!
Reply:Originally Posted by chenrythats an ugly mistake. very obvious. cant believe he tried to fast ball it by you.it is sad what some people think is ok in regards to others money but would never allow if it was their money
Reply:What is that housing material?  I doubt its mild if everything is tigged on it (most of the prefab housings like the CE garbage are all MIG'd if its MS).  Those gussets on the 4 link brackets look pretty makeshift from those pictures, as does the MIG bead which appears to be a very long coilover bracket.  Just seems like a whole slew of questionable factors here.  In all honesty, the caliper mounting won't make a lick of difference unless it brings the bleeder position into question.
Reply:Hey Supe,The whole housing is MS.  It is not made by CE, my chassis guy would not tell me who made it, but there is some wording I noticed on the inside of the housing that was something like Chassisworks FAB9.  It looks like the wording was lightly etched into the steel inside the cetner housing.The whole housing is all 1/4" MS and everything is TIG welded except for the standard housing and tubes from the manufacture which are MIG welded.  I asked that everything be TIG welded just like my MS 25.5. Chassis.From what I can tell the housing is a pretty nice piece from the manufacture.
Reply:If it was my screw-up, on my own housing, I would probably run it. Or - I might look at  re-drilling one brake bracket or flange. Its one of those fabrication goofs that will probably never be noticed, and is quickly forgotten.Except for the brake bleeding that Supe mentioned, I can't think of any serious consequence from having the calipers clocked, and I doubt anyone would ever notice. But I can understand your position too, simply expecting to get what you paid for. Although the $200.00 quote to fix it is fair enough, it wouldn't be a big deal to use any number of ways to cut the weld and rotate the flange.BTW - Did you know that the heavy-duty aftermarket differential, which is used by practically every custom axle builder, started out as a stock ‘57 Ford item? I guess the "New kind of Ford for '57" proved itself!  Good Luck
Reply:I did some searches on the web and found out the housing is a Chis Alston Chassis Works 9" rear end.  http://cachassisworks.com.The sticker on the rear of the housing on their site matches exactly the etching inside of my housing.As for the $200 for the fix, I figure I am going to send the rear end to Strange and have them fix the housing, then make axles and use their brakes and then I am done.So the original chassis builder lost my future business.  In all honestly, I think he did not stand behind his work because business is so slow right now he does not care anymore.  The guy told me 7 months ago when I was bringing my car up, he had 10 other cars on the way in.  I only have seen 2 come in, and no work was even done on them.Right now he is moving his shop of 15 years in with another guy, so I am thinking he is hurting pretty bad and does not want to spend the money to fix it and he just wants to survive.  Too bad...  I will never refer anyone to him, and if anyone asked me who built my 25.5. chassis (which is top shelf by the way), I will not tell them because I do not want someone else to get burnt.I am glad the car is home...And I almost paid him to put in a full aluminum interior...One reason I did not was because he raised his price by $1000 3 months after I had my car there...
Reply:That sucks man. So uh, where are you from? And who is this guy?Maybe it's just me but I would be proudly displaying the name of his business here,along with a warning about the work that was done.Last edited by Burnit; 12-24-2008 at 10:35 PM.
Reply:Why can't you (or somebody else) take a 1/16" grinding disk, and cut that weld, spin the flange, and reweld it back?Proud to be a UNION worker.  Better pay, better benefits, better work environment.  UA Unions = working for the working class!!Originally Posted by EngloidWhy can't you (or somebody else) take a 1/16" grinding disk, and cut that weld, spin the flange, and reweld it back?
Reply:Originally Posted by SupeBecause you need an alignment jig to do it, which he doesn't have (basically a hardened alignment shaft and dummy bearings that fit the ID of the housing ends.)
Reply:I don't see what the big stink is..I'd have that thing fixed in 10 minutes with no jig or anything.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't see what the big stink is..I'd have that thing fixed in 10 minutes with no jig or anything.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't see what the big stink is..I'd have that thing fixed in 10 minutes with no jig or anything.....zap!
Reply:If I had a jig, I could most likely do it myself.  As for the shop... Pickle Factoy Rod Shop in West Palm Beach.The owner and screw up... Mark Dills.I even got the guy his old domain name back (picklefactoryrodshop.com) becuase he lost it and did not know it was available.  I guess I am going to keep the name and maybe make a website tell people what kind of work he does.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't see what the big stink is..I'd have that thing fixed in 10 minutes with no jig or anything.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by carnut68I even got the guy his old domain name back (picklefactoryrodshop.com) becuase he lost it and did not know it was available.  I guess I am going to keep the name and maybe make a website tell people what kind of work he does.
Reply:I know you're  pretty PO'd about this, I would be too.  I just read Specter's post about the years flyin' by like posts on a picket fence while you're drivin' down the highway.  It's sadly true.  Might be a good idea to just let the water go by under the bridge, and find someone who can do it right.  Time's pretty short to waste energy on azzholes.  It doesn't bother them, and it shortens your life.  I don't know about your axle, but it seems that it would be hard to get the part welded on right without an accurate jig, or being able to temporarily install the mating part while tacking.  I don't trust any surface, and even with a jig I'd still be nervous about whether the welding would cause enough distortion to pull the part.If, as stated earlier, flanges on stock axles were plug welded, the designers must have had the same worry.  A plug weld causes very little distortion compared to a full circumfrence weld.I'm probably talkin' out my butt, and I didn't read every line in the thread.  Anyhow, I hope ya get it right.  It looks like a nice car you're working on."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/