?? 3ph CV machine??

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I'm looking to do a bunch of Hardfacing and Dual Shield.      My thoughts are is to pick up some old big Linde, Lincoln, etc. machine.    Maybe 300 amp, 400amp or +.      I've never used a big 3 ph transformer type wire feed machine.   You see these machines cheap ojn internet ( $400 - $800 ).  I guess they suck alot of juice and these big outfits aren't using them or are going out of business, I don't know?    Anyway, in the pics you see, it usually looks like the feeder and gun that comes w/ the machine is a big clumsy, hard to find parts looking thing.      My idea is to pick one of these machines up, and just hook up LN-25s to it.    I don't know, but I'm guessing there not voltage sensing machines.    So one of my questions is, can I just jump a connection together at the pin receptale.    I'm thinking that will keep my feeder hot all the time.    It would be like you had the original gun on there and you were constantly pulling the trigger.    Am I right?  Does anyone see a problem w/ this or any concerns, or anything that would burn up?    My LN-25s have the contacters.          Another question I have is, I need something that has good weldability.    I've used Lincoln CV 250s before, but I don't see those cheap and plentiful.    I see alot of old Lincoln  3R? 350s and 400s.      I need it to weld dual shield good.      I'm all ears for criticism or ideas on this?
Reply:Originally Posted by 123weldI'm looking to do a bunch of Hardfacing and Dual Shield.      My thoughts are is to pick up some old big Linde, Lincoln, etc. machine.    Maybe 300 amp, 400amp or +.      I've never used a big 3 ph transformer type wire feed machine.   You see these machines cheap ojn internet ( $400 - $800 ).  I guess they suck alot of juice and these big outfits aren't using them or are going out of business, I don't know?    Anyway, in the pics you see, it usually looks like the feeder and gun that comes w/ the machine is a big clumsy, hard to find parts looking thing.      My idea is to pick one of these machines up, and just hook up LN-25s to it.    I don't know, but I'm guessing there not voltage sensing machines.    So one of my questions is, can I just jump a connection together at the pin receptale.    I'm thinking that will keep my feeder hot all the time.    It would be like you had the original gun on there and you were constantly pulling the trigger.    Am I right?  Does anyone see a problem w/ this or any concerns, or anything that would burn up?    My LN-25s have the contacters.          Another question I have is, I need something that has good weldability.    I've used Lincoln CV 250s before, but I don't see those cheap and plentiful.    I see alot of old Lincoln  3R? 350s and 400s.      I need it to weld dual shield good.      I'm all ears for criticism or ideas on this?
Reply:I hope your right, because that would make it easy.    I thought the small wires coming off these feeders going to the welder was controlling a on off type switch w/in the welder to send voltage through the welding cable that leads to the feeder.  ??
Reply:I have an idea of how they work, but I don't want to tell you wrong. Hopefully someone here, who can explain it better, will chime in. Or do a search. I am sure it has been covered here before.My setup is either my Miller Shopmaster or my Lincoln Commander, both with CV capability, and my Miller Super S-32P. The small wire out of the feeder is the voltage sensing wire, and is clamped to the work."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:The beauty of higher voltage 3 phase machines is they draw much less amperage to run. Thus they are cheaper to run. They are also much smoother welders than single phase machines.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Hey 123, pm me if you want a hoss of a 3 phase machine. I have a few and will do you right on the price.HammerFile Big Hammer------------------------------Here, let me Google that for you...
Reply:I have a Hobart 600amp CVCC with feeder I'll sell for scrap value.
Reply:FB, don't be cutting in on my deal!Lol just kidding. Shipping from AK would be a bit.HammerFile Big Hammer------------------------------Here, let me Google that for you...
Reply:I think the OP is right. On many dedicated CV machines they have the internal contactor that will need to be jumpered to make the contactor stay closed so the LN-25 will work right. Shouldn't be a big deal. We have an older miller TB 55G engine drive that has CV settings that I made a jumper for so I can run a Suitcase Xtreme 12VS. Another alternative would be to go inside the machine and find the contactor and lift the leads there and splice them together, bypassing the contactor altogether.
Reply:Both you guys live to far away.   I'm in central cal.   thanks welds4d, i feel more in check now
Reply:Yup, I have a 300 Amp three phase MIG, and pressing the trigger does three things:Turns on the argon shield gas via a solenoid valve.Closes a three phase contactor to apply mains power onto the main welding transformer.Applies a variable dc voltage to to the wire feeder motor.All you need do is bypass the trigger switch, and maybe disconnect the wires to the wire feed motor and you are set to go.These big three phase transformer CV machines are not only very power efficient, they hold a much steadier dc output voltage under load than the single phase CV transformer welders.Not voltage sensing, just a honking big transformer, rectifier, and series air cored choke and nothing else.  Mine has tappings on the primary windings that can select dc output voltages ranging from 17 to 44 volts in 24 switched steps.Last edited by Warpspeed; 04-28-2012 at 11:44 PM.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:hmm,  the second function you mentioned " closes switch to supply power to main transformer".   If that were energized all the time, I hope it wouldn't overheat or damage something.    This is just going to be a temporary setup for the summer at someones place.    I'm going to be long welds of hardface at about 26 volts.   The other delimna I'm facing is, I'm thinking I'm going to end up w/ a 230-460v machine.   The power out there is 208.   I'm wondering how that may effect things?
Reply:Having the contactor energized constantly will not damage the machine, just make it draw a bit more power. You can just hang a toggle switch off the front panel connector to turn it off during idle periods.Some of those type of machines will have low output if run on 208V, some will work OK. If you get a line on one, download the manual for it and check its voltage requirements.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:thanks silicon, lamename touched on that a littlein another thread.    I can just uni-tie a switch onto my gun for that matter.     I think the main thing i need to worry about now is finding a machine and figure out what pins in the recertacle are what.
Reply:If you get a chance, measure the 208 you plan on using over a period of time while you're looking for a machine.. Could be it's running 212 to 214."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:yes, I will.   I knew a woman would finally come along to figure this one out.    thanks