Multifunction welders

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Hey everyone, I'm new to the welding scene and just trying to get as much information on everything as I can, in my travels through various google searches of different welders I came across some welders that seem to do mig tig and arc welding I was just wondering if anyone could tell me more about them and how exactly they work Thanks
Reply:Hello Alex.I personally like the single function welders myself.  I demoed the ThermalArc181i Fabricator last year. You have to install the mig, tig or stick leads and then open the cabinet and set the parameters to the mode, metal thickness, gas, and filler. The mig side worked amazingly well, being and inverter. The tig side was a bit cumbersome, as it was liftarc only and did not have a gas solenoid. With the foot control you had to depress it, then lift the arc.With the oxy experience, I think you will really the tig side of the multifunction welder.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:For multi process welders, I like them because they save space, usually inverter based and less leads and cables than being totally separate.However do not buy a multifunction welder that has a plasma cutter in it.   you will own a POS then. there are 2 types of welder for purpose of this discussion.  Constant Current or (CC) and Constant Voltage (CV)   CC= stick welding and TIG weldingCV=Mig weldingThen there is the type of Current AC/ DC... you need AC for tig welding Aluminum. everything else can be done on DC..  I don't know if any multi process machines include AC TIG.  AC TIG is going to cost you lots of $$ any way you cut itTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Southpaw, is that a Powcon/Strata in your avatar?Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by ManjimikeSouthpaw, is that a Powcon/Strata in your avatar?Mike
Reply:In Australia they were marketed as Strata.I bought my 275 STM about '94 for $6500-00Beautiful machine but now requires a new PCB Mike
Reply:I have really been eying up the Thermal Arc 252i 3 in 1 machine myself. Looks like quite the machine.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Alex, generally you get what you pay for.The low end Chinese welders that do everything may seem like a real bargain, but they are generally underpowered and don't do anything particularly well. They are also known to often have some reliability issues....  And they have about zero resale value.The idea that a small amp universal machine is more convenient may not turn out to be so if you have to keep changing everything around all the time to do different tasks. If you have a separate plasma cutter, plus independent MIG and maybe also a TIG set up for aluminium there will be a lot less stuffing around. You just switch on the machine you wish to use, and go !After listening to the advice of the welding pro's here, I am being very patient and slowly buying good used quality heavy duty professional welding gear, rather than starting out with a hardware store Chinese bargain, which I have to throw away after six months.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:While I would avoid the Chinese "multifunction" welders like the plague, Miller (XMT) and Lincoln (Invertec, Power Wave) make high-quality multi-process welders which are quite popular. I also have a rather positive impression of the new Thermal Arc 252i, and I'm looking forward to seeing their new multi-voltage version which is supposed to come out this spring.IMHO, the weakest part of these machines is in TIG, since none have AC or HF start.BTW, I have one of the Pow-Cons with plasma that Soutthpaw mentioned. The machine plate is so worn I don't know what the model # is, but it is rated 250A at 50% duty cycle. I got it for free from a company that was junking it, and wouldn't have paid a penny more. I tossed the remains of the plasma cable and only use it for stick welding.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:In my eyes, I would rather have my mig and tig machines separate. I just don't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket. Plus the price is kinda high on them. If i were you I would get a good MIG first like a hobart 190/210/230, and then later pick up a miller Syncrowave 200/250 on craigslist.
Reply:Originally Posted by Killroy1942In my eyes, I would rather have my mig and tig machines separate. I just don't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket. Plus the price is kinda high on them. If i were you I would get a good MIG first like a hobart 190/210/230, and then later pick up a miller Syncrowave 200/250 on craigslist.
Reply:i think alot of dweebs (noob and pros)  are getting 'multi-function' welders confuesed with 'multi-process' turds        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:I own the thermal arc 252i and have burnt up 2 spools of wire, and about 2-3 poinds of filler metal for TIG. I have Aldo run about 6-7 electrodes of 7018 and s few 308 stick electrodes as well. Just to see what it's like. And it's a great machine. Following the recommended setting on the chart, I have yet to burn through on any materials, but I am getting discoloration on the Back side of the materials. and can get the mill scale to flake off from being hot, so I would assume the penetration is good. I cannot comment on the longevity of the machine yet I have not had it but 2-3 months now, but i personally love it. And I have used my buddys millermatic for about 2 years prior to buying mine. I have also had about 100 hours of welding time on a syncrowave, as TIG and about 4-500 hours with stick. I actually prefer my 252i over them. True you don't have a foot peddle for control of amperage, but once you learn to lay nice beads with a lift TIG, and use speed to control the puddle it makes going back to a peddle a breeze. I say learn the hard way, develop the skills then add in the HF start and foot control. Now I do plan on later buying a Dynasty200 later, but since I only have a 2 car gerage (20X20) and have 12X7 of that space occupied by my CNC plasma, space is at a premium so having multiple machines is not much of an option. I feel for the money spent it gives a guy in the gerage alot of capability. That would be lost with a mig only machine. These are just my thoughts as I am an afterwork decretive metalwork kind of guy. So I'm not relying on this machine as my only source of income. If that were the case I would definatly have a mig backup machine, as the 252i is a new unit and does not have a proven track record of reliability after 5-25 years of service.Again just my thoughts and opinions. But I do love my machine it's great.Last edited by ★ NoBigDeal Fab ★; 04-30-2012 at 01:20 AM.Offering CNC Plasma cutting and welding projects.Follow me on facebook https://www.facebook.com/nobigdeal.fabSupport those that support WW.
Reply:Without looking up the difference between multi this and multi that generally a machine designed to do stick=smaw=?arc, the processes generally called mig, and gtaw=tig.The stick setting and the tig setting are basically so that once you have an arc the amps are pretty much what you set the machine at.  There will most likely be some way to select tig which might have an arc starting feature, a lower arc voltage and less amperage difference as the arc length varies than the stick mode.  Most likely remote controls are extra/seperate.  In the "mig" mode  The machine is set for a voltage which it holds and a wire feeder, again most likely not included with the welder, and plugged into a dedicated place feeds wire at what you set it for and the machine adjusts the amps higher as the wire comes out faster.Like stated above dc welders is what I was discussing.The above should give you enough to talk to a real salesman/woman without being "clueless"There may be base units and more advanced units with features like pulse, I am not really the person to explain that aspect of them.  They can do things like remember 100 settings.FranLast edited by fran...k.; 04-30-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Reply:If I "talked to a salesman" with that explanation, even I'd be confused.Have you even ever used a multifunction machine, such as a Miller XMT?A simple trip to millerwelds.com to check out the machine capabilities seems to be in order.Multifunction means different things to different people.  For years, the major manufacturers have produced both shop and engine drive units that are capable of being operated in both CC (Constant Currrent) or CV (Constant Voltage) mode.  Generally speaking, these machines have proven to be very reliable.Now enter the era of the cheaper imported "multifunction" machines, which try to incorporate CC, CV, and plasma cutting capabilities.  Kinda like stuffing 10# of poop in a 5# box.The "energy" required of a plasma cutter varies greatly from that required for welding, consequently, we find that all too often the functions don't work well together.  Combine that with lack of quality control (and the use of the cheapest parts available) and you have a machine with a much greater potential for failure.  One should consider why the major manufacturers (Miller, Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal, etc) do not try to incorporate plasma cutting into their CC/CV machines.I couldn't count the number of times I've had my tig or wirefeeder running and walked over to the plasma cutter to "knock out" an additional brace or part.  I can't imagine having to shut the whole process down, switch the machine over to another process, cut my part, and then have to convert the whole system back to welding.  Doesn't sound like any fun to me.  In fact, it would get old real fast.To me, the whole imported "multifunction" pitch is just that, an "advertising pitch" directed at the new guys who haven't done much welding/fabrication.As good as the quality "multifunction" units are (take the Miller XMT series), they really can't hold a candle to the capabilities of a dedicated tig welder (Syncrowave/Dynasty series).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAs good as the quality "multifunction" units are (take the Miller XMT series), they really can't hold a candle to the capabilities of a dedicated tig welder (Syncrowave/Dynasty series).
Reply:Brand X,You seemed to disagree with my comment, but then listed all the reasons why I consider my multifunction XMT inferior to my Sync/Dynasty for the type tig welding I do.Never welded with an ESAB 350 mpi (sounds like a great machine), but the lack of AC would be a "deal breaker" for me and the work I do.  I suspect one could buy a "decent tig" for what that package goes for (HF start, pre/post flow, water cooled, etc).Regardless, I think we both agree that several manufactures of quality welders have successfully integrated the CC and CV functions, but none of them (to my knowledge) have tried to integrate plasma cutting which is a whole different story.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBrand X,You seemed to disagree with my comment, but then listed all the reasons why I consider my multifunction XMT inferior to my Sync/Dynasty for the type tig welding I do.Never welded with an ESAB 350 mpi (sounds like a great machine), but the lack of AC would be a "deal breaker" for me and the work I do.  I suspect one could buy a "decent tig" for what that package goes for (HF start, pre/post flow, water cooled, etc).Regardless, I think we both agree that several manufactures of quality welders have successfully integrated the CC and CV functions, but none of them (to my knowledge) have tried to integrate plasma cutting which is a whole different story.
Reply:Plasma cutters work in an entirely different voltage range to any type of welder, therefore it is not just a case of adding a two dollar switch to convert a "welder" into a plasma cutter.However with an inverter type machine it is dead easy (electronically) to switch from constant voltage to constant current, or from ac to dc output.  So combining MIG, TIG and stick is quite practical for a multifunction welder, if it also has plasma cutting included as well, it will very likely not be a very good plasma cutter.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:Originally Posted by Silicon-basedWhile I would avoid the Chinese "multifunction" welders like the plague, Miller (XMT) and Lincoln (Invertec, Power Wave) make high-quality multi-process welders which are quite popular. I also have a rather positive impression of the new Thermal Arc 252i, and I'm looking forward to seeing their new multi-voltage version which is supposed to come out this spring.IMHO, the weakest part of these machines is in TIG, since none have AC or HF start.BTW, I have one of the Pow-Cons with plasma that Soutthpaw mentioned. The machine plate is so worn I don't know what the model # is, but it is rated 250A at 50% duty cycle. I got it for free from a company that was junking it, and wouldn't have paid a penny more. I tossed the remains of the plasma cable and only use it for stick welding.John
Reply:If Alex is asking about the newer multi-process mini machines like the Esab and Thermal Arc then yes you get a machine that will mig-tig-arc weld in the most simple manner. No bells and whistles, low duty cycle, but they work well. In my opinion unless your talking serious arc time and power I'd have no trouble looking at them. They are not toys, but they are not heavy lifters either.As mentioned above the multi-process machines have been kicked up in recent years to include heavy duty pulsing, serious aluminum welding (with or without pulse) and surface tension transfer or rapid arc like features with the mig process. This bunch gets you into some serious money and better duty cycles. Once you move past the roll around single phase machines the money really goes up.If someone board-hacks one of the imports that will make it act like a Powermig350 or 350mpi, I s'pect I'd consider one for minimal duty cycle use...My $0.02 anyway.MattPS. The only successful combos I remember were mig-plasma transformer machines. I don't remember big problems with them but the plasma was choked at 25amp from a 8Kva power supply (so really not efficient).