Lift-start TIG ?

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I have only tig'd with high frequency start, both AC and DC.  My machines are Thermal Arc 185 ACDC and Dialarc HF.  I am considering replacing my Bobcat with a new Trailblazer 302, which has lift-start tig mode.  I would like to have steel/stainless tig capability on the truck without buying another small tig welder or keeping the Thermal Arc on the truck, so tig'ing directly from the Trailblazer with an air cooled torch and a foot pedal sounds very appealing, from an equipment investment standpoint at least.  Those of you that use lift-start for tig, do you like it? Is it more difficult to weld with than HF start?  Do you experience more tungsten contamination with lift start?  Would you recommend tig'ing straight off the Trailblazer, or is it better to just use it as a generator to power a real tig welder?Will there be any problem using about 50 to 75 feet of lead/hose/cable on the torch and pedal?  I regularly use 25 foot torch and pedal.  Is there a distance limit on this, like there is with using a remote-control mig feeder from an engine drive?I have tig pulse on the Thermal Arc but never use the pulse feature, so not concerned about pulsing capabilities.Thanks for any of your opinons.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i tig of my TB302 and the liftarc works fine.I never got a pedal yet, i just have to get the setting right before i start. the only contamination on the tungsten happens to me after the arc has startedalthough that is happening less and less.The auto crater works well also on steel and stainless anyway.G
Reply:i all the welders at work are scatch start no foot petals just old stick welders converted to tig and i never have trouble  with contamination on start up that is
Reply:Your TA-185 has lift arc, try it.  I find it to be the balls.  No problems with contamination.I use a V155-s for stainless for a doughnut/coffe shop chain.  No foot pedal and lift arc.  It makes me money......You sure can use the trailblazer for tig.  I use my ranger 250.  I have a 25' foot pedal or a 100' dial remote.  OR you can just use seat of the pants and keep walking back to make small adjustments.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:think there is a distance limit for the remote at around 100 feet, but cant prove it.G
Reply:Thanks for the info guys.  I'll try that lift start on the Thermal Arc next time I have something to tig with dc. Do you just touch it down, hit the pedal,  lift the torch 1/8" and it establishes the arc?Last edited by DesertRider33; 01-11-2009 at 07:36 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:step on the pedal, touch the tungsten, and roll it off using the cup.  After a while, you will be able to just tough the tungsten, or light it like a match.OR when you touch the tungsten pause a bit, let it short, then the tungsten will warm up a little and start the arc even better.  Once you get the hang of it, its easy as anything else.  Occasionally I re touch the tungsten by accident...... Or just plain dip it in the puddle.....David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Thanks David,  I'll try that.  Sounds easy enough.  Of course I have been known to boggle easy things before... lol. I usually manage to keep the tung outta the puddle, but I do end up crashing the hot tip of the filler rod into the tung sometimes.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:the only times ive used lift arc is when I cant get to a foot pedal doing out of position or on site work.  I just set the amps and go and it always works great.  It takes some pratice to dial the amps right and learn how to control the heat by varying filler, arc length and speed but once you do its easy as pie.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Just don't weld the filler to the tungsten and step on the pedal with your TA-185 on Hi freq start..... ZAP!David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David R Or just plain dip it in the puddle.....David
Reply:Originally Posted by David RJust don't weld the filler to the tungsten and step on the pedal with your TA-185 on Hi freq start..... ZAP!David
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33LOL.I don't recall doing that so far.
Reply:I have a trailblazer 302 with lift arc and auto stop/crater. It works pretty good so far on steel,but I tried to DC some alum. with it running pure helium and it was a real night mare. Arc would barely start and the slightest movement in torch height would trigger the auto crater so it would shut off on you. WE use lift arc alot at work on our phoenix machines even on x-ray.It works but I prefer hi-freq for sure.  I just picked up a 251hd hi-freq unit for my trailblazer and hope to get it set-up soon to try it out.Syncrowave 250Millermatic251Trailblazer302Thermal Dynamics cutmaster52
Reply:Thanks for sharing, Shane.That's all I want to do with it is steel, so if it works good on that, I will be happy.  I will hook up the Spoolmatic if I need to do aluminum on the road, if I get a Trailblazer.Don't be disappointed with the results DC'ing aluminum.   I have tried it with my Thermal Arc tig, with no auto crater feature to get in the way, and it was still a disaster. Can the auto stop and auto crater features be disabled on the Trailblazer 302 when tig'ing direct from the machine with a foot pedal or hand remote? Let us know how that HF251 freq box works out with your Trailblazer.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:auto crater is one setting and remote is a nother settingG
Reply:also, on steel/stailess you shouldnt accidently set off the auto crater. if you do then you have other issues! ie. normal arc length wont start it unless you dip the tungsten.This is in DCEN with 100% argon on steel/stainlessG
Reply:Thanks for clarifying that, Gord.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:It works great for steel,just the helium makes it hard to get an arc started and hard to maintain also. No more lift arc in the shop they just went out and bought about 60 new Miller Pipeworks 400. Sweet machines for sure just hope they hold up better than  the Dynastys did,I seen so many of those things go up in smoke. I'll let you know how the HF unit works out I'm sure it will be sweet. Most of the time the tungsten holds up fine unless you are real heavy on the pedal while trying to start the arc. My biggest thing is going from a machine with lift arc to one with HF i've caught myself lift arcing with the HF machine sometimes......lol.Syncrowave 250Millermatic251Trailblazer302Thermal Dynamics cutmaster52
Reply:snoborder88 yer comment about controlling heat by varying filler (what do you vary, the amount you actually put into the puddle?..the more you add the cooler it gets?), arc length and speed rang a bellfor me, but i thought of the 3 arc length would be a no-no ,  the last thing to change--doesnt increasing arc length  negatively affect the arc intensity/puddle formation and lead to lof ,  or is that done within  tolerable limits?
Reply:I've always used HF. The one time I used lift-arc I kept forgetting to turn my gas on, It's fun to see your tungsten go up in a cloud of black smoke. Got my tungsten stuck a few times too. But other than that it was a breeze, laid a bead just fine.Only problem I really had was I couldn't fast-tack like we do at work.
Reply:I got my 251D HF unit hooked up on my 302TB today worked great. Little weird ACing ALum. with it and using a hand remote but other than that worked very well. Gonna use it on a job saturday and DC some Alum. on a 38ft manure tanker reworking some piping and flanges.Syncrowave 250Millermatic251Trailblazer302Thermal Dynamics cutmaster52