Overcharged for C25

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I am just starting to learn to MIG and recently purchased a new 20cu ft tank from Harbor Freight.  I took it to the closest gas supplier, Cee Kay, and exchanged it for a tank of C25.  After tax I paid $52 for the exchange and after reading posts here I feel like I either got ripped off or I am missing something about the exchange process.  Before I accuse them of anything, am I missing something?  The receipt didn't explain anything in detail that I could say is the reason, such as it being a non Cee Kay tank that I turned in.  Thanks
Reply:I expect prices are the same in my area for small tanks owned by residential users.  Businesses get a break because they buy in volume.  Gases are also cheaper per unit of volume when buying in larger volumes.  It's always wiser to first ask your LWS what the largest customer-owned tank they'll exchange is, then to go with that size.  Or to ask about rental rates and exchange prices for larger cylinders (280 cf or 336 cf) and do the math.  I pay about $35 for an exchange on my 280 cf tank of 75/25.  My tank rental costs me $50/year.Tank exchanges in my area also carry additional fees beyond taxes, such as Hazmat.Sorry you had to pay the piper on this one.  You might get marginally better prices at another LWS - you could call around.Last edited by tbone550; 05-08-2012 at 08:00 AM.
Reply:Thanks tbone550, It actually makes me feel better if I made a mistake, I can live with that and learn.  I don't like being taken advantage of though.  Right now I just have a few small projects in my head and unfortunately they are spending more time in there than being worked on in reality.  The 20cu ft should last me a while.
Reply:Many times places like this have a sliding price scale. Larger volume users tend to pay less than smaller users. Many times the reason is they make up the money on the volume of consumables like wire and rod that big volume users order along with the gasses, so the LWS is willing to cut the gas pricing a bit.Also don't be afraid to shop around. prices can vary widely locally between suppliers and even in some cases branches of the same supplier. One counter guy might be more than willing to cut you a break, while another guy at another location will bang you for as much as he can for the same product. It may also help if you open an account with the company. I have an account with my supplier even though I don't order any significant quantity of stuff. It helps if they know you, so it often pays to go in on a regular basis and pick up small things you need if the price is reasonable vs ordering on line and saving a few pennies..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I havent purchased any new tanks in ages, but I would suggest getting a bigger tank as the cost to fill is a 150cu ft is not much more. I pay about 26.00 bucks for a "s" cylinder of c25 from my local Praxair. Is it possible that with a new tank they either need to hydro-test it since it wasnt one of theirs or any chance you bought a different style tank and they needed to change out the valve? Most of my local suppliers don't like to exchange tanks from other companies as there may be a liability issue. They will generally fill them for you, but exchange is unlikely. I will post a new thread shortly for cylinder sizes vs cu ft. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:I think your first mistake was buying a 20cf from HF.Before I got my cylinder, I looked high and low for owner cylinders for sale on CL, called every LWS around and even looked at new cylinders from a few places too.I saw plenty of CO2 and straight argon cylinders on CL but I couldn't find a single C25 cylinder which implied they aren't the sorta thing you're likely to find secondhand for cheap.As an individual with no company leverage, buying a new cylinder is a joke anywhere you go.So then I compared rental vs purchase. Local Rayco requires a business account, Praxair and Airgas require credit check and deposit. Rental rates aren't that friendly without company leverage either.That left buying a cylinder so I went through the phone book calling LWS's again. Cheapest prices were at Airgas, ~$300 to purchase any size up to 150cf with a harsh sliding scale on exchanges favoring larger sizes of course.So I got a 150cf, $303.02 out the door. For me, frequency of use was not even an issue in my decision. I decided strictly based on what's cheapest long term because now that I've started welding I don't ever plan on stopping.Locality also affects prices, and rarely if ever in my favor.Miller Syncrowave 250 w/ PC-300 pulserLincoln AC/DC 225/125Clarke TurboWeld 150ENJackson Halo w/ gold lensHuntsman w/ blue lensDoing sanitary stainless tig
Reply:Originally Posted by hypothecaryI saw plenty of CO2 and straight argon cylinders on CL but I couldn't find a single C25 cylinder which implied they aren't the sorta thing you're likely to find secondhand for cheap.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAround me most suppliers will allow you to swap gasses when you exchange, so a cylinder of 100% argon is just as good as a cylinder of mig mix, with the exception you'd have to pay for a fill. If the cylinder was empty when you bought it, you have to get it filled anyways, so that's not really a big deal. Since 100% CO2 is a liquid vs a gas, swapping a cylinder might be a bit more problematic,  it can't hurt to ask, and you can always run CO2 instead of mig mix if you want to go that route. All you'd need to buy is the reg adapter.
Reply:Originally Posted by hypothecaryI think your first mistake was buying a 20cf from HF.Before I got my cylinder, I looked high and low for owner cylinders for sale on CL, called every LWS around and even looked at new cylinders from a few places too.I saw plenty of CO2 and straight argon cylinders on CL but I couldn't find a single C25 cylinder which implied they aren't the sorta thing you're likely to find secondhand for cheap.
Reply:I lease all my tanks except one ... a 60 cu ft bottle that I just had filled with 25% helium / 75% argon ... $32.  Your refill seems a little high.  You're mostly paying for the service, not the contents when you fill a bottle that small.  I would not be happy if my LWS charged me that much to fill a 20 cu ft bottle.  Definitely shop around.Dynasty 300DXSmith He/Ar gas mixerMM350PHobart Handler 120Smith LW7, MW5, AW1A
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardWTF do you think difference between an argon and C25 cylinder is? lol
Reply:The tank I bought was green but had the right valve on it.  He said only oxygen was supposed to be green but I don't know if that made any difference in the pricing.  Do they have to be a specific color or is that just a common practice?  I'm an electrician and like seeing black, red and blue for 120/208 and brown, orange and yellow for 277/480 but it is not a code issue, just good practice in my opinion.
Reply:now before anyone gets out of hand here, i am refering to gas jugs.  color don't matter as long as it isn't a short fat black one.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Originally Posted by Hefty4690T  Do they have to be a specific color or is that just a common practice?  .
Reply:Just got my 125cf bottle exchanged for 39.99.  That's just a little more than what I was paying for my 40cf.
Reply:Once I quit geting gas at the local Airgas and went to the real LWS, locally owned, my gas prices at least halved or in the case of argon about a 1/3.  Nitrogen and C25 at least half.  I've owned a 240 for over 10 years now and picked up a couple of 125s in a deal last year.  Shop around, it pays.  Just paid $30 for a 125 C25 swap.Enough stuff to build and repair wrinkled up race cars or bring a classic back to life...