Which tig filler rod for jap bike frame?

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GSXR1100 alloy swing arm, exstrusion not casting, any one know the alloy spec'/Thinking of using 4043 or 5183 rods, any one ?
Reply:4043, enough said.
Reply:Its heat treated, contains about 2% copper,  dont weld on it....enough said!Unless your going to heat treat it, then use 4145 filler.
Reply:Are you filling a divot, fixing a crack, welding a bracket? Or are you lengthening it, for a 300 something HP turbo motor? 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Probably the same filler rod for krout,chink,wop bike frames.
Reply:Why oh Why do people feel compelled to throw out answers on subjects they know absolutely NOTHING about?I'll say it one more time.  BAD INFORMATION IS WORSE THAN NO INFORMATION.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Why oh Why do people feel compelled to throw out answers on subjects they know absolutely NOTHING about?
Reply:i will second the heat treated remark. most aluminum in motorcycles is heat treated and even a small weld win negate this process. do some more home work
Reply:I will try to give a complete awnswer.The aluminum frame may be a metal stamping and so the metal is often annealed(softened)to form the complex shape.Then the metal goes thru a heat treatment to bring it back to its original strength.Another option is hydoforming where the piece of the frame is put into a tank of water and small explosive charges are used to make deep draw shapes. That metal is also probably annealed.Whenever a aluminum weldment is completed the heat affected region may only be 65% of the strength of the parent metal, unlike steel which when TIG welded is 85% or higher.4043 filler is a general purpose filler wire with a broad range of uses.Also many time aluminum weldments are hard anodized which also makes the surface hard and makes the whole piece stronger.You have to remove the anodizing to make a proper weld, A lot of varibles.If you really want to know I would call the manufacturer and ask what type of metal is used .If you are just welding a bracket or making a major structural change is very important.I think that is why a complete new swing arm is better than a modified stock swing arm.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomI will try to give a complete awnswer.Another option is hydoforming where the piece of the frame is put into a tank of water and small explosive charges are used to make deep draw shapes. That metal is also probably annealed.
Reply:I've done loads of research on this, still not clear!The swing arm is being cut & longer sections ( cut from  from another arm )are to be added, with box section infill's to bridge the join.It's been done loads of time s before, just want to get the right filler rods!& yes 300bhp turbo
Reply:Lots of people go hunting drunk too, doesnt mean its a good thing to do. You need to know the alloy and condition to pick the filler, process, pre-heat, and anything else. As I said I did a SA modification for a racer I work with, same bike, we scanned the material, tested the hardness, welded it, and heat treated it. Anything else is shade tree or sounds like advise given by a "buddy" while sitting at the bar at about 1 in the morning . Doing your homework like this is the difference between a weldor, and a welding machine operator.
Reply:Yepper,Lot more information needed before I'd even venture a guess on the best filler and process to be used to do this job properly.Donald Branscom:I think the following phrase very accurately describes your general guidance."If you can't dazzle them with brillance, you can surely baffle them with BS"Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:The alloy is 6061 T6. He is right, they are extended all the time. I've done a few myself, and they have been heartily abused on the dragstrip. I'm going to post a few pics, of how to cut the swingarm to be extended. I use a grinder and cutoff wheel to carefully free the cast end piece.You can weld in the extensions, usually pieces of 2x4 tubing, with 4043, or 5356. You MUST add fish plates, underbracing, and overbracing though. I had more pictures, but can't seem to locate them.Really though, if you need to ask what filler to use, you probably shouldn't be attempting this.Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:Oh yeah, guys, if you saw how terrible the factory welds on these things are you would never ride one!Miller EconotigCutmaster 38Yes ma'am, that IS a screwdriver in my pocket!
Reply:If welding it bothers you, there are companys that wiil make a swing arm for you in any length you want. I had a 3" over swingarm made for my '83 GS1100 with a big bore kit. The name of the company was APE (American Performance Engineering). I don't know if they are still in buisness as this is going back several years.
Reply:Joe H, thanks for the info', I'm asking about the filler wire just to be sure.I'm a good welder, I'd rather ask & be 110% sure than just hope for the best!I have planed on have additional bracing  -    thanks again!.Last edited by tim-e; 01-28-2009 at 06:08 AM.
Reply:I'm not sure if motorcycle frame components are heat treated.  The majority of motorcycle frames and swingarms are a composite of aluminum extrusions and castings.  Castings generally would not see much benefit from heat treatment.  I would think it would be ok to weld on a swingarm in areas that already have welds because the reduction in strength due to welding has already been accounted for.My greatest problem with simply extending a swingarm is that the stock swingarm was designed to deal with the stresses seen with the stock length.  Lengthening the swingarm (and more than doubling the horsepower) certainly increases the stresses seen on the swingarm.  If this were my project, I would feel better cutting off the boxed tube sections, start with the cast pivot sections, and build a new swing arm from there.  That way, you will have a continuous section between the pivot and the chain adjuster blocks with no welds to weaken it.  If you do anything, add inserts where you butt the new swingarm section on.  The inserts need to fit tight.  Weld through the swingarm and into the insert.I know you are going to want to make this a show bike so I know you are going to grind the welds off where you butted the new pieces to the old swingarm, the inserts will help maintain the strength after the weld bead has been ground off.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500I'm not sure if motorcycle frame components are heat treated.  The majority of motorcycle frames and swingarms are a composite of aluminum extrusions and castings.  Castings generally would not see much benefit from heat treatment.  I would think it would be ok to weld on a swingarm in areas that already have welds because the reduction in strength due to welding has already been accounted for.My greatest problem with simply extending a swingarm is that the stock swingarm was designed to deal with the stresses seen with the stock length.  Lengthening the swingarm (and more than doubling the horsepower) certainly increases the stresses seen on the swingarm.  If this were my project, I would feel better cutting off the boxed tube sections, start with the cast pivot sections, and build a new swing arm from there.  That way, you will have a continuous section between the pivot and the chain adjuster blocks with no welds to weaken it.  If you do anything, add inserts where you butt the new swingarm section on.  The inserts need to fit tight.  Weld through the swingarm and into the insert.I know you are going to want to make this a show bike so I know you are going to grind the welds off where you butted the new pieces to the old swingarm, the inserts will help maintain the strength after the weld bead has been ground off.
Reply:Jap bike frame and their manuals used to be equipped with warnings about welding on the frame can cause fatal injury bla bla bla.In my opinion it means the stuff is indeed heat treated after welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by ElGuapoJap bike frame and their manuals used to be equipped with warnings about welding on the frame can cause fatal injury bla bla bla.In my opinion it means the stuff is indeed heat treated after welding.
Reply:The box section has tight internal section's which will bridge the join, the weld will not be ground down, it would be possible to to bolt  flanged button cap head bolts  through  the arm & into the internal block after drilling & tapping, if this was done only on the inside & under side of the arms, it would not be noticed & give a stronger joint?A bridging plate could also be added  on each out side face.This could carry a lifting reel, for a lifting stand.Any good?
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860Castings are heat treated all the time. From engine castings, to transmission housings to you name it. Dont believe me? Come visit the foundry if your ever in WI.
Reply:Best way I guess would be to get a scrap swingarm from the breakers, weld something on it and do some destructive testing. Great fun.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500Is it a stress relieving heat treatment or a property altering heat treatment?  Aluminum castings are gernally very low alloy content and aren't affected much by heat treatment.I did see a hill climbing bike recently, they simply cut off the chain adjusters and bolted in some swingarm extensions.  If that is strong enough, I am sure what ever you will do is strong enough as well.