Any Gunsmiths out there ?

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I have a local who wants us to tig a compensator onto his rifle barrel.  I have quite a bit of experience in most metals, but never done a rifle barrel. Figured this would be the place to find someone with experience.    I will do some research before I touch a thing to make sure it is legal and what the process will call for but anyone with real world been there experience I would like to hear from. First thought is SiB or maybe 309 if it doesn't come with any instructions. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Zap... U get all the really good EZ jobs right?  He'd  be a candidate and lives in NE U.S.  teehhee  see that I volunteered Zap  teehehhepics we want pics as it goes, course!Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I don't need anyone else to weld it for me, I have a couple hours of tig experience under my belt. I just want to see if anyone has done this before and what their experiences were. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Are you sure TIG is the right way to go about it?  I would have guessed that the preferred method would have been threaded, pinned, or silver soldered.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmAre you sure TIG is the right way to go about it?  I would have guessed that the preferred method would have been threaded, pinned, or silver soldered.
Reply:I have a few gunsmiths in my area. The rule of thumb from them is welding on receiver is ok, but welding on barrel is a no-no.Silver-braze is spot on.Last edited by shovelon; 05-17-2012 at 06:46 PM.Reason: spellinWeld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:the compensators I've seen were locked on with a set screw, or screwed on the barrel.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Customer dropped it off this afternoon and looks to be not as problematic as I thought. All it needs is a dab of silver solder or SiB on the base of the compensator to the front sight body. evidently this had been done before but the compensator was imported and therefore did not meet the (overly) strict BATF guidelines. One more case of the customers description of the work needed not being close, however the customer did say "it should be only like 40 or 50 bucks right?" I said does that seem fair ?and he said yes....I would have only charged him 25 if he kept his mouth shut. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Originally Posted by brucerthe compensators I've seen were locked on with a set screw, or screwed on the barrel.
Reply:Silver solder would be better.
Reply:Comps are typically threaded UNLESS there is a question of length - if the comp is there to bring the barrel up to a legal 16 inches then threaded and welded to meet ATF requirements, even then silver solder is usually the way to go.The other worry is that YOU now have posession of HIS firearm and you don't have an ffl I assume.  As bad as folks get flamed around here for trailers and DOT legalities, be glad this isnt a gun forum - you are already in ATF limbo wiht the NY address, now you are stepping on FFL toes.Be careful and best of luck.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:You would be best to formulate a game plan and NOT share on the interweb seeing as a ffl is required for making changes to someone else's gun, and keeping it overnight well let's just say mumms the word. And yes silver solder is what you want to use. Good luckGod speed Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
Reply:I would not do the work and return the rifle pronto.  Glock36 is correct, you need an FFL to do that.In addition the murky waters of import issues is not for the uneducated, and I would be concerned there is some reason the customer came to you rather than an FFL / gunsmith.  Somthing doesn't smell right.  As in, that may be an illegal weapon and he is trying to get you to make it appear legal.It ain't worth $50.ps, Hopefully you are both residents of the same state.  Under federal law it is illegal to transfer a firearm to a resident of another state unless that person is a licensed FFL.  Transfer.  Not sell, bequeath, gift, borrow.  Transfer.Last edited by RodJ; 05-17-2012 at 09:23 PM.
Reply:I build custom rifles in my spare time, and I have never seen a compensator or brake welded onto a barrel.  Yes it can be done I will be willing to bet that it won't hit the broad side of a barn once it is completed.  It needs to be set up in a lathe and installed concentric to the bore of the rifle with a certain amount of clearance over bullet diameter.  There are a view places that you can weld on a rifle, but this is not one that I would recommend.  Most welding on firearms is risky business considering most parts are heat treated, and will have to be re-heat treated after welding is completed.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Any legit reference to back up the claim that an FFL is required to work on other folks gun?Experience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:Just throw some solder on it, take cash, and give no receipt so no paper trail!  You dont need a ffl to repair an existing part.  You need an ffl to make any modifications to the weapon.  Anyone can put a compensator on a rifle legally, whether its pinned, soldered, or red threadlocked onto the barrel,  and I know this as fact, look it up, Cheers!Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2Last edited by usmcruz; 05-17-2012 at 10:52 PM.
Reply:Holy Moley... I once built a site for Dads S&W lightweight 22 revolver... it was alloy.  I made it by hand and pinned it in... had I known sheesh I would have never done that.  Sucker shot straight too. Zap,  belay the lastLincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I am sure if you go to BATFE.GOV  you will find all the legitimate reference you require Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
Reply:You do not have to have an FFL to work on someone elses gun as long as the weapon remains in their presence and there is no money involved..  If however you are taking control of their weapon and performing a service FOR PROFIT - then you are by their definition a gunsmith and operating without a federal firearms license.see 27 CFR 478.11 will get you startedits a little wordy, and the odds of it becoming a problem are slim - but there is still the potential.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:Mooooooooooooooooooar anti-gun laws! Re-Elect Obama!
Reply:I read through the regs very quickly, and do not see a requirement to be a FFL holder to work on gunsExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:You dont need to be a gunsmith, for entry level armorer work.  Anyone can do it.  Im a certified armorer for glock, fn, and remington, but even if I wasnt id still perform that kind of work all day long.  Yall some skiddish folk!
Reply:It's not terribly clear, but here you go:Sec. 478.41(a) Each person intending to engage in business as an importer or manufacturer of firearms or ammunition, or a dealer in firearms shall, before commencing such business, obtain the license required by this subpart for the business to be operated.Under Sec. 478.11: Dealer. Any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail; any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms; or any person who is a pawnbroker. The term shall include any person who engages in such business or occupation on a part-time basis.ATF FAQ: A company receives firearm frames from individual customers, attaches stocks and barrels and returns the firearms to the customers for the customers' personal use.The operations performed on the firearms were not for the purpose of sale or distribution. The company should be licensed as a dealer or gunsmith, not as a manufacturer of firearms.The murky part is if you receive the "firearm", which may be the receiver, but you do work on the barrel.
Reply:Yikes, this is almost as bad as the "if you weld up a car frame you will die in a fiery wreck" thread. I appreciate the advice and what I was very clear about mentioning in my op was "I will do some research before I touch a thing to make sure it is legal and what the process will call for "      With that said I called my little brother who has been with the ATF for some time and he said no problem with fixing it in place. As it happened the compensator was threaded on and retained by a small pin the needs depressed to unscrew it. NYS says that it must be non-removable and therefore the silver solder or SiB.....customer stated tig welded and once I saw the gun I knew what we could do.     While I'm not overly concerned about this one, I don't plan on making it a regular habit. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Sounds to me like you've done about $50 worth of "researching" the legality, so the repair is FREE.In the future, you may wish to just PM "yorkiepap" (a moderator here).  He was a gunsmith for years and I'm sure could set the issue straight.Last edited by SundownIII; 05-18-2012 at 12:20 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.c) Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;(d) Gunsmith. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;Experience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:Fred, If you make "occasional repairs" you're not a gunsmith.  Correct.  But if you do it part time, the definition of "dealer" applies (see the last sentence of that section).  This is not a clear area of the law and the ATF FAQ indicate it requires some form of FFL.
Reply:until CFR defines occasional vs part time, i will place myself firmly in the occasional categoryExperience is something you get right after you need it
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIISounds to me like you've done about $50 worth of "researching" the legality, so the repair is FREE.In the future, you may wish to just PM "yorkiepap" (a moderator here).  He was a gunsmith for years and I'm sure could set the issue straight.
Reply:you can buy compensators over the counter, order them off the internet and so on, you dont have to have an ffl to mount a compensator..  A silencer or supressor is a different story..for example, heres a page for a couple different bolt-on compensators for sks rifles. http://centerfiresystems.com/COMSKS03.aspx heres a page for bolt on and pin on compensators for m4/ar15/m16's http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Flash...ators-s/43.htmtackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:PS thanks to Fred for sending that info, now I have something else to keep in mind if I decide I need to venture into the gun world again. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Okay, now we're back to good stuff.  What on earth is going to happen with that Willys after you're done?  5.7 Hemi???  That looks like a neat project.  Whats the body going to be?I'm reminded of the four most common words spoken by a redneck right before he dies: "Hey ya'll, watch this!"
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJOkay, now we're back to good stuff.  What on earth is going to happen with that Willys after you're done?  5.7 Hemi???  That looks like a neat project.  Whats the body going to be?I'm reminded of the four most common words spoken by a redneck right before he dies: "Hey ya'll, watch this!"
Reply:coupe,LOL.  Isn't that the way it always goes.Maybe I can take a little heat off you...Yesterday I cut the coupler off the tongue of a 5'x10' utility trailer and am going replace the entire tongue.Not the type work I "specialize in" but a young guy who works in the yard saved up his coins and just bought a pretty nice little utility trailer at Trailer World.  Paid about $1,100 dollars for it.  Real proud of it.  Anyway, the first weekend (last weekend) he has it, he loads up his riding mower and carries it over his dad's house to cut the grass.  Backing out of the drive, he jackknifes the trailer and bends the tongue.  Not just a little, but does it right.  Sunday night he calls me and explains his dilemma.  Told him to drag it in and we'd get him squared away.  Monday AM he goes out to hook up the trailer and finds a flat tire (nail in the tire).  Thursday, he gets his money together and picks up a new tire/wheel assembly. (going to use the original as a spare).Yesterday he brings the trailer by the shop.  He did it right.  Bent both 3" channels leading back to the trailer frame.  Took the plasma an wacked the coupler off, so we could get to it without having to work upside down (it's reusable).  Monday, he's going down to pick up a new stick of 3" channel.  If I have time I'll try to snap a few photos of the completed repair.And no, I'm not going to "weld it up" with my 90A, 120V Solar mig.  Think the MM251 might be up to the task.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Awww come on Sundown, you already know that if you don't have the engineers report, material certs, x-rays of the weld and a personally signed certificate of super-okay-ness from Chip Foose that you will kill hundreds of Orphans in a fiery wreck! Besides, posting pics might actually show these guys that you know what you're doing...you've strung them along this far why crush their spirits now?    In all seriousness poor kid sounds like he has the same luck I do, except I would have gotten a flat on the way over to to get the trailer flat fixed "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:LOL,Yepper.  This is going to be one of those "high dollar" repairs.Normally (last spring and fall) I pay this kid to rake my yard of the pine needles and pine cones.  This year I may get my yard "raked" for free.Did I mention, I hate freaking pine trees.  If I wasn't in a "Chesapeake Bay Protective Zone" which limits what you can do with trees, I'd cut them all down.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDid I mention, I hate freaking pine trees.  If I wasn't in a "Chesapeake Bay Protective Zone" which limits what you can do with trees, I'd cut them all down.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIILOL,Yepper.  This is going to be one of those "high dollar" repairs.Normally (last spring and fall) I pay this kid to rake my yard of the pine needles and pine cones.  This year I may get my yard "raked" for free.Did I mention, I hate freaking pine trees.  If I wasn't in a "Chesapeake Bay Protective Zone" which limits what you can do with trees, I'd cut them all down.
Reply:Originally Posted by Oldiron2Do you want to borrow a beaver; they have immunity from the EPA and other 'environmental' laws, are "wild creatures" so you're not allowed to bother them, ...........but I suppose the officials would hold you responsible even if it weren't your fault and you had no control over any of the situation.
Reply:Just so long as he takes pics of all the welds on the fence and posts them "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:I really like the beaver idea, unfortunately it has two drawbacks.1.  Beavers don't like salt/tidal water.  They prefer freshwater streams.2.  One of the pine's (about 18" in diameter), would fall right on my house.  Don't think even Jack Hanna (the animal trainer) could teach a beaver to run a bucket truck.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII really like the beaver idea, unfortunately it has two drawbacks.1.  Beavers don't like salt/tidal water.  They prefer freshwater streams.2.  One of the pine's (about 18" in diameter), would fall right on my house.  Don't think even Jack Hanna (the animal trainer) could teach a beaver to run a bucket truck.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIII2.  One of the pine's (about 18" in diameter), would fall right on my house.  Don't think even Jack Hanna (the animal trainer) could teach a beaver to run a bucket truck.
Reply:Originally Posted by bruceryou can buy compensators over the counter, order them off the internet and so on, you dont have to have an ffl to mount a compensator..  A silencer or supressor is a different story..for example, heres a page for a couple different bolt-on compensators for sks rifles. http://centerfiresystems.com/COMSKS03.aspx heres a page for bolt on and pin on compensators for m4/ar15/m16's http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Flash...ators-s/43.htm